Theresa Marie Schiavo

James Hufnagel · Veteran Member

Theresa Marie Schiavo

Date: Fri Feb 25 9:40 PM, 2005

How Mad-as-a-Hatter that with all the illness, handicaps and other maladies around Niagara County, that we find SO MUCH time to dedicate to sickness a thousand miles away. Talk about brain dead!

There are sad obituaries of people dying too early in the newspaper here every day. This year alone there were two 20 year old girls and a14 year old that died--All in need of investigation. Don't worry until it hits one of your own family--then have a $20 a ticket benefit...I refuse to buy these any more.

But hey, let's talk about Florida, Jeb Bush and things we have NO CONTROL OVER. Now that's being in a coma!! Think globally, act ridiculously brain dead.

Happy 50th Anniversary to Opportunities Unlimited, AKA previously as the Association for Retarded Children (ARC)... Opportunity my you know what.

Lou Ricciuti

jspeer · Guru

Well said Lou. There are so many things locally that need attention. It could be worse though. Atleast he cares about something. I know alot of people don't care about nothing until it effects their own family. Then everyone who is expected to care and help them. Your a good person Jim.

Date: Fri Feb 25 10:00 PM, 2005

I wasn't shooting at JH, just up in the air in a general direction at everyone.

We MUST focus on our issues here--especially those that will take a toll for generations to come.

My opinion only..I guess,

Lou R

Scott Leffler · Guru

Jim,

Thanks for the link to the timeline. Much appreciated. And thanks for your view in the matter.

To an extent, I agree with Lou - there's enough crap going on here to worry about ... but at the same time, if we ignore what's going on in the rest of the world, we might end up not having a Niagara County to fight for. Don't forget - Hitler never attacked us, either. Should we have focused on Niagara County then? I know - far stretch - but you get my gist, I'm sure.

Point is, what's right is what's right. No matter the boundaries.

And there's enough good will here in NC to go around.

- Scott

truthpatrol · Veteran Member

Not all conservatives are a part of the fanatical religious right(i.e. James Kopp). We also need to consider that Gov Bush and company were not ruling on the moral aspect of the case but were considering whether or not these were her last wishes. They are also considering if there is indeed any significant brain activity. The husband made the claim that these were her wishes. She has no living will. The parents claim there is hope and that there still is a sign of brain activity. This case is not about euthanasia nor has it ever been. If she had a living will this would not be a problem. This case should teach us all a lesson. Get your affairs in order long before you think you will need to.
I love how all of the Atheist left wingers ( see what I mean…not too pleasant to get dumped into a group) revert to bashing those of us who are conservative and religious. You cannot paint everyone with the same brush. A funny thing about most of the lefties I encounter, they don't even know what they stand for. When asked most will say they are for labor or some other historically canned response. Ask a dem why they are a dem and what there plan for a better future would contain and they are a dear in the headlights. Try it...Great fun at parties...
I should also state that I was a part of a union for 4 years. I was an officer and a national delegate...The corruption and general garbage I encountered were one of the many reasons I am now firmly planted on the right..

Mindcrime · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: James Hufnagel
"It is clear that the religious right, powered by the Florida Governor and his brother, the President of the United States, wish to advance their agenda by championing what remains of Ms. Schiavo's biological shell. Isn't it disingenuous for these conservatives, who continually preach that government should get out of our private lives, to intrude on matters that should be the domain of Ms. Schiavo's legal guardians and doctors (all of whom have recommended the removal of the feeding tube). Compassion is supposed to be an attribute of being a Christian. "

So religion is for killing people who aren't dead yet, but against killing people who aren't yet born? What a neato double standard.

I can't speak for Terri, or anyone else who wants their plug pulled. If I'm ever like that, LEAVE MY PLUG ALONE! I don't wanna die. That's the whole secret of life: not dying. Like George Carlin said: All I need in that state is morphine, ice cream and television, then leave me be.

Scott Leffler · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Mindcrime
"If I'm ever like that, LEAVE MY PLUG ALONE! I don't wanna die. That's the whole secret of life: not dying. Like George Carlin said: All I need in that state is morphine, ice cream and television, then leave me be. "

MC - so you'd really want to "live" like that? Hmm. The world's made up of all sorts of people. I'd just assume they took the feeding tube out, hooked up a drip to make me sleep ... and keep on sleeping ... first star to the right and straight on til forever.

truthpatrol · Veteran Member

Mindcrime..There you go with that broad brush again...Never did I make that staement..I personally would want the plug pulled as I would not want to be a burden to my family or society. This, of course, only after all hope was lost as defined in my living will. The point I was making was the Schiavo case illustrates the need to define our wishes prior to death.
You State" So religion is for killing people who aren't dead yet, but against killing people who aren't yet born? What a neato double standard."
Do you belive you should have the choice as to whether or not to pull the plug? I think that decision should be mine. On the other side of things...Are you for partal birth abortion? I personal think it is wrong to terminate a baby that can live outside of the womb at the time of extermination. I think this is a contentious debate and there are many grey areas. I have a hard time determining where life begins. I do feel that killing a baby that can live on its own a be adopted instantly is flat out wrong. Especially when it is killed because it is merely inconvenient for the mother.
What specifically do you believe Mindcrime? Do you ever post your own original thoughts or do you merely cut and paste some obscure article and then add a blurb from some comedian to make it more intereting?
Lets here about what you believe and how YOU would make things better. Enough of pointing out the sky is blue and the grass is green. We can all search the net for an article that backs up both sides of any argument.
Be creative..

Looking forward to you changing my views. One thing I recognize is that I do not have all the answers.

-- Edited by truthpatrol at 18:19, 2005-02-26

Mindcrime · Guru

Um, TruthPatrol, I wasn't quoting you, in fact, it says I quoted the thread's author at the top. And please don't mistake opinions for personal attacks. If what I have to say offends, angers and sickens you, fine, but don't think I do it specifically to you...

Now, I think abortion is wrong, wrong, wrong, with the exception where it would endanger the mother's life. Even a fetus has some rights, but not at the expense of another. Along the same thinking, a mother has rights, but not at the expense of the fetus. This is why I think this decision should be left to the mother, the only person who can really decide who's life is more important, her child's or her own.

I think individuals should have the right to decide if they should have their life ended, and if they make no legal provisions for such a decision, it should fall to the next of kin. If no family remains, then it's a medical decision to be made by the head surgeon.

And for the record, I always post original thoughts. When I quote people, they are credited, & it is not to speak my mind, but to speak more clearly about what another person said. I make creative comments and combine them with established facts. And judging from how you react to my opinions thus far, my original thoughts would make you run screaming into the night.

truthpatrol · Veteran Member

Running screaming into the night is not something I plan to do. It is interesting that you seem to have taken both sides on this one. You believe that abortion is wrong wrong wrong but also believe it should be the choice of the woman...Of course when a womans life is in danger they should have the choice. Do you believe we should deny abortions to woman for any other reason besides their life being in danger?

NuclearLou · Senior Member

Removed.

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:18, 2005-02-28

Mindcrime · Guru

Perhaps the fact that logic and reason are the guiding force in my life affects my opinions of life and death. There is nothing political driving these feelings. I have no illusions about afterlives or post-mortem paradises, so my desire to cling to my life for as long as possible is paramount.

I see death as the absence of life, so naturally, I want to preserve life in any scenario. In the case of mother-threatening abortions, you have no choice but to weigh the importance of one life against another, and no one can really do that but the mother herself. Freedom to make that choice is guaranteed in this country. But I would always encourage adoption over abortion.

Date: Sun Feb 27 5:47 PM, 2005

< I wasn't shooting at JH, just up in the air in a general direction at everyone. >

Mr. Riccuiti:

In the land of James Kopp, and as one who went out one morning to find a bullet hole in my windshield (driver's side, head high) this was a poor choice of words on your part.

I'm sorry that you feel at the mercy of powers that dictate the path of your life, and that you have no control over these powers.

I, on the other hand, feel that I have tremendous influence over these powers, if only there was more time in the day and I used my ability with language to write the next "Silent Spring" or "Unsafe at any Speed", the money and compassion to end homelessness, or even the courage to douse myself with gasoline and strike a match on the Capitol steps against our occupation of Iraq. I believe all of these would be within my reach if not for my laziness and apathy.

So, once again I'm asking you to knock it off. Save your sarcastic diatribes for the bad guys.

James Hufnagel

alwayswatching · Guru

Wow how did this thread get so personal? Yes I have sat with loved ones and watched them turn into themselves before the end. This is the worst time a person can witness.

I am very blessed with healthy strong children and can not begin to know what this poor family is feeling. I also know that when my children get married I will not be the one who knows them the best. I hope I am able to step back and watch the new family grow. God forbid I find myself in this situation, but I hope I will be able to trust that my childs life partner will know what is really wanted. I may not like the choice, but it will not be mine to make.

Somehow we all manage to rubber neck at others misfortune. I know I am very guilty, but I do try to do my part in NC. Some may think I should take my part and move very far away, but I am trying. I can't pass judgement on this family as it is so not my place. But I will say that we treat our pets with far more compassion when it comes right down to it.

-- Edited by alwayswatching at 21:08, 2005-03-01

Date: Sun Feb 27 11:34 PM, 2005

Guys,

This thread has stepped over the bounds ... and as a result I had to delete a post.

Same rules on the board as on air ... no personal attacks. Let's talk about issues, not people.

If we want to return to our beliefs/feelings about the Shiavo case, that's great. If we want to talk about each other, do it at the bar.

Now return to your corners.

- Scott

Date: Sun Mar 6 6:32 PM, 2005

Dear Mindcrime,

Will you think abortion is "wrong, wrong, wrong" when you have to identify your sister or daughter on a slab in the morgue, because she didn't have access to safe, legal abortion and she died from blood poisoning or massive peritonitis (abdominal infection) from a butcher using aseptic technique? Or a girlfriend with a flashlight and a screwdriver?

James Hufnagel

truthpatrol · Veteran Member

Mr. Hufnagel,
Looks like you are attacking Mindcrime for no good reason. He stated in a post after the "wrong wrong wrong" post that "Freedom to make that choice is guaranteed in this country. But I would always encourage adoption over abortion. " That seems like a reasonable and fair statement to me. He is not trying to impose his views nor deny the mother the right to chose. I think any sane person would recommend adoption over obortion. Do you believe abortion should be a form of birth control? Do you feel that partial birth abortion is justified in cases where the mother is not in any danger? I will end it here bacause based on your previous statement and I am afraid to push to far..

You stated you wished you had "even the courage to douse myself with gasoline and strike a match on the Capitol steps against our occupation of Iraq." WOW...I am actually deleting my comments because you are clearly a guy I do not want to debate with..Please take care. I wish you the best..

Date: Mon Mar 7 10:54 AM, 2005

Truthpatrol,

You are way off. Your and Mindcrime's comments exemplify the simplistic and unevolved thinking that is necessary to prop up your case.

It is not "reasonable and fair" to "encourage" either adoption or abortion.

It is reasonable and fair it to be legal for women to make their own choice.

"Freedom to make that choice is guaranteed in this country" is merely a statement of fact by Mindcrime, carefully stated to frame the anti-choice rhetoric that follows.

A bit of housekeeping: No, I do not think abortion is birth control. Secondly, no, I don't believe so-called partial birth abortion should be performed unless the woman's health is in danger.

As far as the human torch, if there's never been anything in your life you would die for, whether it's your country, family or a political cause, then you're leading a truly meaningless life.

Now that I've successfully dispelled your attempt to portray me as some kind of dangerous nut, allow me to point out that you have already *pushed too far* when you advance an offensive opinion publicly on this forum and then claim to withdraw.

One of my favorite sayings is:

"When I'm done, you're done"

James Hufnagel

truthpatrol · Veteran Member

One of my favorite sayings is:

"When I'm done, you're done"

That is exactly the mentality I am talking about. It speaks for itself.

As far as the human torch, if there's never been anything in your life you would die for, whether it's your country, family or a political cause, then you're leading a truly meaningless life.

I would have to disagree that I am living a meaningless life. I believe there are many things I would die for. However, I would certainly exercise all other options first and I would never opt for the human torch to make a political statement. I believe my time would be better spent trying to educate and inform people.

A bit of housekeeping: No, I do not think abortion is birth control. Secondly, no, I don't believe so-called partial birth abortion should be performed unless the woman's health is in danger.

What happened to your womans right to chose here? I am confused. What would you have these woman do that are in their third trimester and find the pregnancy inconvenient. Would you perhaps recommend adoption. I am just curious. Where do you draw the line between when it is right and wrong for a mother to terminate pregnancy based on inconvenience. Seems to me this looks like a gray area. Please advise?

And one final thought. There are many people that excercise of form of the human torch on a much grander scale. They believe it is Jihad. They all are trying to make a political statement. I choose not to be a part of this fanatical mentality.

Have a great day..

Date: Mon Mar 7 8:21 PM, 2005

Give up on this guy...just by his comments he thinks that he's above it all and anyone--seemingly everyone. His opinions are way too strong for him to be a reasonable thinker. Something just isn't right there. Lights are on, elevator, five cans, and a broken-banded pallet...you get the picture. He wastes everyone's time with what he'd do "if only" this or that. He's probably never done anything worthwhile in his life and the disappointment that he speaks of smacks of his own. Don't take anything he says to heart. He's argumentative, belligerant and not willing to even entertain another's opinion. The negativity is palatable.

I think we've all ran into someone like this along the way. It's at this point that he should be ignored by all. Let him leave his drivel so that only he reads it! Clod.

Date: Mon Mar 7 8:23 PM, 2005

Well said. I think he is "Done." As in "well done."

Maybe a little over done. :LOL!

Date: Mon Mar 7 8:32 PM, 2005

Mr. Hufnagel: You choose your words very interestingly. Are you trying to leave a veiled threat to anyone in particular?

In this forum you've talked about dousing yourself with gasoline. You've mentioned guns and shooting. You've suggested to some that they've "pushed too far," and that "you're done" comment.

You had better just chill out. A step further and some may consider you to be a threat. Just a word of advice for you to tone yourself down. Do you get it?

>Now that I've successfully dispelled your attempt to portray me as some kind of dangerous nut, >allow me to point out that you have already *pushed too far* when you advance an offensive >opinion publicly on this forum and then claim to withdraw.

>One of my favorite sayings is:

>"When I'm done, you're done"

>James Hufnagel

Withdrawl may mean that they just don't wish to be bothered any further. especially with your odd way of defending sometimes your untenable positions. You are being monitored now.

Date: Mon Mar 7 8:36 PM, 2005

Dear Truth,

Well, it looks like some brave souls have interspersed their comments in our discussion.

Maybe Scott should set up a separate forum for anonymous folks who take out their frustrations online. Their wives are probably screaming at them to take out the garbage this very moment.

In answer to your question about women's right to choose, Roe vs. Wade was not *carte blanche* to allow abortion at all stages of pregnancy.

The Supreme Court ruled, in Roe vs. Wade, that the state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion during the first trimester, the state can regulate the abortion procedure during the second trimester "in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health," and in the third trimester, demarcating the viability of the fetus, a state can choose to restrict or even to proscribe abortion as it sees fit.

I myself would prefer to see the line moved back to the end of the fifth month, but that is simply based on my professional research on brain wave differentiation, which starts to manifest towards the end of the second trimester.

Unfortunately, the recent Bush ban on so-called partial birth abortion did not even account for the woman's health, which is why three courts across the nation issued injunctions against its implementation.

Truth, your questions are intelligent and do, in fact, reflect a search for the truth.

James Hufnagel

Date: Tue Mar 8 9:28 AM, 2005

>Dear Truth,

>Well, it looks like some brave souls have interspersed their comments in our >discussion.

>Maybe Scott should set up a separate forum for anonymous folks who take out >their >frustrations online. Their wives are probably screaming at them to take out the >garbage >this very moment.

"BRAVE SOULS?" THERE YOU GO AGAIN WITH THE VEILED THREATS? "IN our DISCUSSION? That's a little bold, self centered abd "brave," eh?
WHY DOESN'T THE OWNER SET UP A SEPARATE SPOT FOR YOU? DO YOU REALIZE THAT ON A PUBLIC BULLETIN BOARD THAT your STATEMENT SOUNDS OFF-THE-WALL? GARBAGE DAY WAS YESTERDAY...WHEN DOES YOURS END?

>I myself would prefer to see the line moved back to the end of the fifth month, but >that >is simply based on my professional research on brain wave differentiation, which >starts >to manifest towards the end of the second trimester.

THE ME SYNDROME, OR, THE EYE OF THE STORM---ME, me, me, I, I, I?
YOU WOULD PREFER? DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN? SINCE WHEN WOULD YOU HAVE ANY SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS TO A WOMAN? ARE YOU EVEN MARRIED? IN YOUR "PROFESSIONAL RESEARCH?" "BRAIN WAVE DIFFERENTIATION?" YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!! Let us see yours! LOL

>Truth, your questions are intelligent and do, in fact, reflect a search for the truth.

>James Hufnagel

I, we, me, myself and I myself, and all of us here that reside in my skull think you should have a brain scan differentiation done. Soon!

WELL, THANKS A BUNCH FOR YOUR APPROVAL. YOU GO FROM ONE POISON SPITTING VIPER TO 'YOU'RE SMART AND SEARCHING FOR TRUTH." LIKE ANYONE REALLY CARES ABOUT YOUR TWISTILY-constant CHANGING OPINIONS...
JEEEZ!!