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Post Info TOPIC: Where are factory jobs going?


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Where are factory jobs going?
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Where are the Factory Jobs Going?
Democrats continue to whine about manufacturing jobs that are fleeing the country as companies seek cheaper labor in countries like China. But if that is true, then why is the number of manufacturing jobs in China down as well?

Contrary to the impression that you get from politicians running for president and the news media, manufacturing job losses are a global phenomenon. The New York based investment management firm Alliance Capital Management performed a study of 20 large economies from 1995 to 2002 and found that even though global industrial output rose more than 30%, more than 22 million jobs were lost globally.

FactoryJobsHistory.gif While it is true that some countries have seen a net increase in factory jobs during the time period, the global average was a loss of 11%. Most surprising was that China had an even greater loss than the US.

Robert Reich, Secretary of Labor under former President Bill Clinton, explains it this way:

All over the world, factories are becoming more efficient. They've installed new equipment and utilized new technology. And that often means fewer jobs. Market reforms have also played a role. In China, new modern factories are replacing large, inefficient state-run plants. The result is that even as China produces more goods than ever before, millions of factory workers have been laid off.

Manufacturing is following the same path as agriculture. As productivity rises, employment falls because fewer people are needed. In 1910, almost a third of adult Americans worked on farms. Now, fewer than 3 percent do. But American agriculture is the most productive in the world.

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    ......

-- Edited by Dovey at 07:32, 2005-06-14

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BEIJING (Reuters) - China dismissed U.S. criticism of its fixed currency peg Wednesday and attacked European and U.S. steps to curb Chinese textile exports as unfair.


The war of words reflects growing political unease on both sides of the Atlantic over jobs that are being lost because of a relentless increase in low-cost imports from China -- many of them made in factories built by U.S. and European companies.






The U.S. Treasury warned Beijing on Tuesday it could be labelled a manipulative trading partner unless it took steps towards scrapping the yuan's decade-old peg against the dollar.


Commerce Minister Bo Xilai said Beijing was studying the Treasury's report but it disagreed with its conclusions.


"I believe they are not reasonable," Bo told Reuters on the sidelines of a business forum.


Washington on Tuesday issued its toughest warning yet on China's rigid foreign exchange policy, which U.S. manufacturers say undervalues the yuan by as much as 40 percent giving Chinese exporters an unfair advantage in world markets.


The U.S. Treasury said in a semi-annual report that current Chinese practices were "distortionary" and posed a risk to global economic growth. A finding that China was indeed manipulating its currency could open the door to retaliatory action, within the bounds of international trade law.


Hours after the U.S. accusation, China kicked off a new foreign exchange dealing system that allows trading in currencies other than the yuan, a milestone in the country's effort to reform its tightly controlled currency regime.


China has long said that it intends to unshackle the yuan, also known as the renminbi, which has been pegged near 8.28 to the dollar since the 1997-98 Asian financial crisis.


But a senior official reaffirmed an assertion Monday by Premier Wen Jiabao that China would not be bulldozed into acting.


"We agree with many of you that a more flexible regime would be better for China's economy. But there is no timeframe for such a change as conditions are not ready yet," Wei Benhua, deputy chief of China's foreign exchange regulator, told a trade conference in Singapore.


Wei said accusations that China was deliberately holding down the yuan were groundless and told the United States to "put its own house in order before blaming others" for its trade deficit.


Vital statistic

Commerce minister Bo also cried foul at moves by the United States and Europe to curb China's textile exports.


Washington last week decided to restrict imports of Chinese trousers, shirts and underwear. The European Commission stepped up the pressure on Tuesday, seeking emergency talks on T-shirts and flax yarn that could lead to curbs on imports into the EU.


Bo said Washington and Brussels had 10 years, until the end of 2004, to phase out quotas on developing countries' textile imports.


"Regrettably, developed countries such as Europe and the United States failed to do so," he said. "They kept the vital part of 70 to 90 percent of quotas until the end of last year, which led to a temporary surge in Chinese textile exports early this year."


The quotas were finally scrapped Jan. 1.


Tens of millions of Chinese people depended on textiles for their livelihood, and $1.26 billion worth of exports had already been affected by the new curbs, Bo told reporters later.


"After four months they are setting limits. We think this is without reason," he said.


Under terms agreed by China when it joined the World Trade Organization in 2001, the EU could cap the rise on imports from China within 15 days of the start of formal consultations if Beijing took no effective action to limit exports.


The explosion of low-cost Chinese imports has become a sensitive issue in many European countries and in the campaign for France's May 29 referendum on the EU constitution.


But Bo said rich countries must stick to the global trade agreements they had signed.


"In international trade, we can't have pragmatism: if the rule is favorable you implement it; if it is not favorable you don't implement it. The current problem of textile trade is a typical case," he said in his speech



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quote:

Originally posted by: jspeer

"Manufacturing is following the same path as agriculture. As productivity rises, employment falls because fewer people are needed. In 1910, almost a third of adult Americans worked on farms. Now, fewer than 3 percent do. But American agriculture is the most productive in the world. "

A lot of that is due to automation. Robots perform perfectly, never making mistakes. If one person in a control room can run an assembly line that used to be manned by expensive and faulty people, wouldn't you switch? Farm machinery also replaced a lot of workers in agriculture. Modern day combines do the work of 100 men in one day. Plus, a lot of agricultural jobs are held by people, just not Americans.

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ok this is easy , let us apply the kiss principle ,


confucious say ; if you dont have factory , you dont have factory jobs. we dont have factory ...      our labor force wants it both ways , they want the high pay and benefits from american employers but they dont support american vendors because the pricing of american vendors reflects the higher cost of american labor , so the american consumer [also the american labor force ]  screwed themselves by asking to work for american employers BUT not supporting their employers by purchasing american products .   if the employers have no demand for their product , they dont need a labor force to manufacture it . so the american employers changed , and stopped employing american labor . 


economics 101 ,   it can be fixed ,  start supporting american business ! stop buying chinese crap !   it is that simple .   a blind man or woman can see it.   


my customers dont have the option , i will not use chinese import BS on their cars , yes , the bills to the customers are slightly  higher because of it , but they dont mind , the quality is much better using higher quality parts. no comebacks to repair the same thing over and over.


   when you have a crash you can insist your car be repaired with OEM parts , not chinese import BS , ever see a newer car driving around with 1 fender all rusty , chinese metel , ever put brakes on your car and get a pulse in the pedal when you apply the brake , chinese brake rotors ,   i could go on and on ,    chinese engine management parts , forget it , new electronic parts out of the box dont work or worse dont work as engineered causeing additional problems , like blown transmissions , failed cat converters . ...  


buy american , in the long run it is cheaper , and it is better for us all .



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Well said, Mike!

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As a consumer, I'm going to buy the product that gives the best value for the best price.


Ever wonder why the top 10 cars in America RARELY include a Ford or Chevy? Toyota seems to be on top nearly every time, not just in cost, but performance, reliability, re-sale value, safety, etc. My friend has had the same toyota for the last 11 years, and it's had minimal mechanical problems, no rust, and doesn't cost an arm & a leg to repair. And it's still worth thousands more than my 6 year-old American car.


We used to be on top because we had all the technology. We were only in competition with ourselves. Now we can't compete with real quality anymore, but you still want the consumer to pay more money for a lesser product? Get lucid, man.


You want people to buy American? Make better American products.



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quote:





Originally posted by: Mindcrime
"As a consumer, I'm going to buy the product that gives the best value for the best price. Ever wonder why the top 10 cars in America RARELY include a Ford or Chevy? Toyota seems to be on top nearly every time, not just in cost, but performance, reliability, re-sale value, safety, etc. My friend has had the same toyota for the last 11 years, and it's had minimal mechanical problems, no rust, and doesn't cost an arm & a leg to repair. And it's still worth thousands more than my 6 year-old American car. We used to be on top because we had all the technology. We were only in competition with ourselves. Now we can't compete with real quality anymore, but you still want the consumer to pay more money for a lesser product? Get  lucid, man.  You want people to buy American? Make better American products. "


 


first off - who is this "Lucid Man" and how can he assist in solving this problem.


2nd , many of the toyotas are built here - look at the first # of the 17 digit vin , if it is not a j the car was not built in japan .... 


many new toyotas are having engine failures due to lubrication problems ,  the oil that toyota specifies is not the same as what many "quicky lubes"  use in their $12.95 oil changes and many american consumers think they can have the oil change done every 10k miles with no problems ,[as toyota stated in their service guides]  wrong ,    toyota is trying to keep it quiet so the mortals dont here of it , consider yourself enlightened .   toyota is not alone with oil specification troubles - some chrysler and all european specify better oil for their engines as well . with the same disasters awaiting those who choose otherwise ... 


the american engines [for the most part ] are engineered to use the current specification API / ILSAC oils availible at the time of production .    without long term problems.                                           


 except for cars made in korea , sweden ,england , or france   most new cars will run 200k miles without any major problems    only if they are properly maintained as per OEM specification , so if you and many others purchase product from off shore , fred the ford builder and all his co workers and the workers that build the sub assemblies used to assemble cars and their support people and the staff that builds and maintains the factorys that are no longer operating  dont have money to purchase whatever it is that the rest of us do when we are at work     .  so the rest of us loose out on profits from lost sales and purchases , and our taxes increase to take up the void left when the corperate taxes formerly paid by the factories evaporate ....   not to mention contributors removed from your health insurance rolls which increase health insurance premiums for the surviving labor force - and who pays for the uninsured laid off worker when he is in the hospital .... we do [with medicaid] . property values around the now empty factory do not go up for sure .


a vicious cycle - look at the "big picture"    - our technalogy is still #1 , some american cars are great , some are crap , 


but some repair facilities dont have the ability to fix the cars - making it appear that the cars are crap , when in reality they just dont have the tools and software and education to do diagnostics and correct repairs when the cars break .   not the fault of the car or the builders of the car ....     


my 1986 audi quattro has 209k miles on it  , 4wd, cold ac , rust free , faster than a runaway camel with his hump on fire ....   if the audi ever fails me my next car will be a mid size gm sedan with fwd and a 3.8 liter v6 , 32 mpg on the highway and very reliable . all / any of them are about the same ....    no toyotas ....



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quote:


Originally posted by: mike of the mountain
"many new toyotas are having engine failures due to lubrication problems ,  the oil that toyota specifies is not the same as what many "quicky lubes"  use in their $12.95 oil changes and many american consumers think they can have the oil change done every 10k miles with no problems ,[as toyota stated in their service guides]  wrong." That only proves that Americans are either too stupid, too lazy or too arrogant to research what kind of oil they put in their cars. You wouldn't expect your brand new Chevy to run correctly using leaded gasoline, would you? You can't fault the manufacturer for user error.


"except for cars made in korea , sweden ,england , or france   most new cars will run 200k miles without any major problems only if they are properly maintained as per OEM specification" I have a 2000 domestic vehicle, which has had the oil changed (by the dealer, mind you) regularly every 3,000-5,000 miles. The owner manual says 7,000, but I play it safe. I repair problems immediately, and I have it in for preventative maintenance religiously. It's resale value at 135,000 miles is less than $700. A Toyota Corrolla in the same condition is worth about $11,000. Say what you will. My pride stops at my wallet. I'll buy local produce from farmers, or buy a hammer from a local hardware store. But I refuse to pay an extra $10,000 (on top of an MSRP of $17,000) for an inferior product.



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well - i dont now where you get your figures but see from kelly blue book , kbb.com for my zip you will see a 2000 corolla le with 5sp and ac and some frills with 135k miles ,private party sale is $4500.    dealer used car price will be a bit higher . maybe $5500 tops .   


http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.NY;528799;NY027&12533;sed+p&722;Toyota;2000%20Corolla&6;TO;A1&&&


i dont know what you have but i will guess a cavalier , 2000 in my area with 135 k miles in good shape would sell private party around $2000. to $3000. depending on options .     less if you bought a ford about the same if a neon .


but in my area your toyota engine popped 35k miles in the past at a cost of about 3k for a new reman engine installed .....      looks like a wash .....  except for


ALL THE FACTS I USED IN MY EARLIER POSTS .



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Anonymous

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Considering you're judging my facts without knowing exactly what they are, I can't give your assumptions any credit

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Anonymously Crusading says - If these deare and kind readers were to avail themselves of your post times for each topic start and your responding post times, they will see you for your true self as an agent of the darkside. With calculating thought you have made distracting posts away from conversation and debate of great importance to the Realm of Light.



Anonymously Crusading says - Mindcrime you have done this with smooth ease and seeming substance when each and every one of your posts in fact were for other purpose, for a distracting agenda at a very certain moment in time. Why?


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quote:

Originally posted by: Anonymous

"Anonymously Crusading says - If these deare and kind readers were to avail themselves of your post times for each topic start and your responding post times, they will see you for your true self as an agent of the darkside. With calculating thought you have made distracting posts away from conversation and debate of great importance to the Realm of Light. Anonymously Crusading says - Mindcrime you have done this with smooth ease and seeming substance when each and every one of your posts in fact were for other purpose, for a distracting agenda at a very certain moment in time. Why? "

I have seen this going on also. Care to explain MC?

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quote:
Originally posted by: forgottenchild

"I have seen this going on also. Care to explain MC?"


I don't get it. What is "anonymously crusading" trying to get at? That MC doesn't want us to talk about toxins?

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quote:

Originally posted by: Scott Leffler

" I don't get it. What is "anonymously crusading" trying to get at? That MC doesn't want us to talk about toxins?"

Yes I think so.

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Why is he involving the rest of us? Damn, it's almost on every post!

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OK, what's going on? I've been to 6 different threads and I'm being accused of...something...not really clear as to what.


This is a thread about the industrial exodus, no one's mentioned toxins in the discussion.


Hey, Anonymous Crusader, what's yer beef?



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Riddle: Why does MindCrime sell Chain Maille that falls apart?


What does this have to do with toxins--answer, nothing.


What this have to do with junk that should be buried as trash--Chain Maille that MC sells!


MC, you pass around garbage. That is what this is about.



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quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymous

"Riddle: Why does MindCrime sell Chain Maille that falls apart?
What does this have to do with toxins--answer, nothing.
What this have to do with junk that should be buried as trash--Chain Maille that MC sells!
MC, you pass around garbage. That is what this is about.
"


So let me see if I can get this straight ... Anonymous Crusader who either can't figure out how to sign in or would prefer not to ... has spent the last 36 hours trying to derail one of this boards more critical thinkers. For what purpose? Are we only allowed to talk about toxins? Are you implying that maybe MC works for FMC or the government? Why do we always make these assumptions about other users? Frankly, Anonymous Crusader is the one distracting people here. MC has been a valuable member of this board and I look forward to more of his posts.

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What? MC has some of the best posts on this site. I could care less about his occupation...what do you do that makes you special? MC, I look forward to reading your future posts.

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quote:

Originally posted by: Scott Leffler

" So let me see if I can get this straight ... Anonymous Crusader who either can't figure out how to sign in or would prefer not to ... has spent the last 36 hours trying to derail one of this boards more critical thinkers. For what purpose? Are we only allowed to talk about toxins? Are you implying that maybe MC works for FMC or the government? Why do we always make these assumptions about other users? Frankly, Anonymous Crusader is the one distracting people here. MC has been a valuable member of this board and I look forward to more of his posts."

How did FMC get here?

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quote:

Originally posted by: jspeer

"What? MC has some of the best posts on this site. I could care less about his occupation...what do you do that makes you special? MC, I look forward to reading your future posts. "

     playing nice is good

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quote:

Originally posted by: Dovey

"     playing nice is good"


"The war of words reflects growing political unease on both sides of the Atlantic over jobs that are being lost because of a relentless increase in low-cost imports from China -- many of them made in factories built by U.S. and European companies."  posted earlier by Dovey


 


Yes playing nice is good, so is making observations. cdcdcdcdcdcdcd - that was my cat walking across the keyboard. So what's really going on?



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quote:
Originally posted by: Dovey

"     playing nice is good"

Nice is my middle name!

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quote:

Originally posted by: jspeer

" Nice is my middle name!"


Got any proof?


 



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