less offensive

shughes · Senior Member

less offensive

Mindcrime · Guru

I think $14 Billion is a very conservative number. It's closer to $26 Billion. And that's just the money spent by the Justice Dept., law enforcement courts and correctional institutions. What about the other governmental groups?

We spend nearly $30 Billion in foreign aid a year. How much of that is used to persuade foreign countries to stop producing and shipping drugs to our borders? We'll say a conservative $3 Billion.

We'll also conservatively say one quarter of the Coast Guards' $4 Billion budget is spent intercepting drug runners. There's another Billion.

You can write off another Billion on advertisements and social programs designed to sway kids from taking drugs. (Which in and of itself is not so bad, except that they employ lies and deception to get their point across.)

Then there's the Department of Defense(War). We know they're going to spend about $400 Billion on something. (This does NOT include the Trillion dollar war we are waging against no one.) Best estimates (because the military hates answering questions like "where did the money go?") is around $35 Billion.

Add to that the modest $26 Billion we pay to process and incarcerate the 8.2 Million people arrested on drug charges every year.

65 Billion Dollars. And that's just last year...

Please note that when I write Billion, it is improperly capitalized. This is to emphasize the collosal amounts of money we are wasting on the War on Drugs. As a reference, a Million dollars is a stack of hundred-dollar bills, 3 feet high. A Billion dollars is a stack of hundred-dollar bills twice as high as the empire state building. We spend a stack of hundred dollar bills 32.6 miles high on the drug war. Think about that for just a minute.

Date: Fri Oct 28 4:12 PM, 2005

damn. that's a lot of money

Jim Sacco · Senior Member

The tax revenue would be outweighed by the cost to society.

The problem with legal drinking now is drunk driving.

What happens when society sanctions pot smoking?? Think of the consequences.

Date: Sat Oct 29 9:26 PM, 2005

SACCO Writes: "The problem with legal drinking now is drunk driving." YOU keep making these proclamations. Where are your facts? These are your opinions that keep getting stated with some sort of "authority." Is that because of your various political positions? This gives you the right to proclaim "fact>? What's your societal opinion on GAMBLING? Here's a few others Bozo..So, "Drunk driving is The problem with legal drinking"(?) You know nothing at all of what you are trying to speak--Childhood abuse- physical, emotional, Adult Children of Alcoholics, lost national productivity, violent crime, medical costs to society with alcohol. The same can not be shown with "Refer Madness" as you proclaim. As soon as the wind of popular opinion changes, so will you, just like a blade of grass, no pun intended. You'll follow whatever the government rhetoric is or becomes. Just like a good little landfill monitor should... Landfill monitor...were you a hall monitor too? Landfill Monitor ... sounds like a small, green-splotched lizard that runs around and under things at landfills, dump sites and political fundraisers. That's right, support that multi-billion government bureaucracy--you're already so entrenched in.

new kid · Member

Are you saying that drunk driving is not a problem anonymous? If you really need facts to believe this is a problem I posted some below. If that is not enough for you I can find some facts on innocent people that have been killed. It looks like you are just looking for a fight.

Drunk Driving Facts

Each year 1,500,000 people are arrested for drunk driving in the United States. Of those, approximately 500,000 are officially convicted for repeat offense. Because of inefficiencies in reporting between jurisdictions and states, the "real repeat offense rate is closer to 50%." As a rule of thumb, 50% of 1st offenders become 2nd offenders and 80% of the 2nd offenders become multiple offenders. And 90% of the 1st offenders who become 2nd offenders either refuse the breath test or register a High BrAC. The average BrAC test upon arrest in the United States is .18% over twice the legal limit in most states. Today, the average social drinker rarely gets arrested for drunk driving. The inordinate percentage of alcohol related fatalities, injuries and damage are caused by what the Transportation Research Board termed in their 1995 study, (presented to the National Academy of Sciences), "The Persistent Drinking Driver."

Mindcrime · Guru

Jim Sacco wrote:

The tax revenue would be outweighed by the cost to society. The problem with legal drinking now is drunk driving. What happens when society sanctions pot smoking?? Think of the consequences.

Tax revenue is right on. $500 Billion. That's what the estimated 'underground' drug industry brings into this country. Imagine if we only taxed a fraction of a percent of marijuana users.

And what consequences? Frito Lay and Domino's will come out on top. There's little to no connection between marijuana use and traffic accidents. When people smoke pot, they don't run around and go places. They sit on the living room floor and have very sedated discussions over which little star is going to turn into the Enterprise....

Stoned people don't cause trouble. It's fairly inexpensive, so it doesn't lead to armed robberies. It doesn't make you out of control so violent crimes or abuse is a non-issue. If you weigh the cost of society to a drug's legality, we should outlaw alcohol nation-wide. And gee, that worked really well the first time, didn't it?

Date: Sun Oct 30 2:00 AM, 2005

Not looking for any fight anonymous. Just wanted the facts straight. You seem to have done that with D.A.R.E. and DWI awareness. I am actually very much against the use of alcohol. You've got the wrong partner for that dance. I'm touched on a daily basis by people who were or are alcoholic. Please don't tell me about drunken driving statistics unless you've lost a family member to the Demon Rum!

Jim Sacco · Senior Member

anon,

There you go again, taking my statements out of context and not revealing who you are.

jspeer · Guru

Although I think pot is harmless...I don't think I want it legalized. I have kids and wouldn't want them sitting around on my livingroom floor talking nonsense rolling doobies on the help wanted ad section instead of reading it to get a job. Other than that I have no opinion.

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

new kid wrote:

Drunk Driving Facts Each year 1,500,000 people are arrested for drunk driving in the United States. Of those, approximately 500,000 are officially convicted for repeat offense. Because of inefficiencies in reporting between jurisdictions and states, the "real repeat offense rate is closer to 50%." As a rule of thumb, 50% of 1st offenders become 2nd offenders and 80% of the 2nd offenders become multiple offenders. And 90% of the 1st offenders who become 2nd offenders either refuse the breath test or register a High BrAC. The average BrAC test upon arrest in the United States is .18% over twice the legal limit in most states. Today, the average social drinker rarely gets arrested for drunk driving. The inordinate percentage of alcohol related fatalities, injuries and damage are caused by what the Transportation Research Board termed in their 1995 study, (presented to the National Academy of Sciences), "The Persistent Drinking Driver."

Drunk driving fatalities nationally fell to something around 16,000 a year, and now for several years that seems to be a kind of resistance level. It makes sense in light of "new kids" post above because it doesn't matter what the law says about bac, some people are able to reoffend over and over again. So the yuppie is passing on the third glass of chardonnay while the town drunk boozes it up and weaves home.

In my opinion, I think the law should be that the driver cannot consume any alcohol before driving. Drivers on the road take each other's lives in their hands. There's a reason why brain surgeons, aircraft pilots, truck or bus drivers or police officers cannot drink on the job. It's because any amount impairs their skills and judgment. So should it be everytime someone gets behind the wheel of a car.

A hundred years from now we will be laughed at because we had something called the "bac".

-- Edited by Jim Hufnagel at 13:15, 2005-10-31

-- Edited by Jim Hufnagel at 13:17, 2005-10-31

Phantom · Veteran Member

What strikes me as odd is that the government chose to outlaw an herb. This is not a drug which was processed in a lab and filtered and refined en masse. It's leaf, it's dried, it's smoked. Just like tea. And it's the most over-rated substance in the country, except maybe Knutella.

I'm sick of paying for it. Just legalize it, so the only people who do pay for it are the ones actually buying it.