Bush maps out Iraq war strategy ...

Scott Leffler · Guru

Bush maps out Iraq war strategy ...

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

i dont see a new plan , i see the same plan . but i do see the POTUS doing better pr work to attempt to explain the plan to the American population . Good for him . whats the beef ?

consistancy is a good thing . imho the weakness of the US military is in it's exposure to the IED s , i feel they should work hard to find an alternate way to move "stuff" or take of the gloves and level the problem areas . The military is really trying hard to minimise non hostile casualties so leveling the problem areas is not on the table , now. note that the speech was delivered at the Naval academy , the SEALs are navy personel . note the discussion of using more special forces type operations.

the good guys [us] are winning . be happy .

Phantom · Veteran Member

I listened to the speech yesterday. Basically, he could have just walked up there and said "We're never leaving." and saved the audience a lot of time.

Granted, we never should have gone in the first place, that's clear. And leaving now would be even more disastrous, which is also clear. So since Bush is intent on seeing this thing through, why not do it right? If the generals tell him we need at least 50,000 troops on the ground to finish this once and for all, why not just send 200,000? Obviously, we're not making much headway if we've been there for this long and we're still making marginal progress. Let's flood the country with men and equipment, secure the borders, tighten the noose, and just sqeeze al Quida out of existence. Let's stop pussy-footing around. It's got to be more cost effective than spending another 5 years here, with a marginally effective force, hoping the Iraqi forces will get their act together.

I was watching The Hunt For Red October last night, great movie btw, but a quote made me think of this. Bush said we can't set a date to leave Iraq because it would send the message that "we are weak." In the movie, Sean Connery pointed out that "When he reached the New World, Cortez burned his ships. As a result, his men were well motivated." Cortez knew that if there was no way back, no safety net, they would have to succeed or die.

The moral? Deadlines often bring out the best in people. If we told the Iraqis: "We're out of here come June 1st, 2006," they would be faced with a clear choice: get their s**t together and fight their own battles, or die. Hey, it's the same choice our nation faced 229 years ago...

-- Edited by Phantom at 12:12, 2005-12-01

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Phantom wrote:

I listened to the speech yesterday. Basically, he could have just walked up there and said "We're never leaving." and saved the audience a lot of time. ////

----------------------------===========-------------------------

for the whole concept ....   a lot of reading ....

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050901faessay84508/andrew-f-krepinevich-jr/how-to-win-in-iraq.html

pretty much the speech as presented by the media does not begin to explain what will be changed .

in a nutshell , the person above , an advisor to the pentagon , has drafted and lobbied for the plan as outlined in the above link . the basics of the new plan are ;

strategey will shift from "search and destroy "    to "clear hold and build" , where pockets or areas will be occupied and held and security will be provided so building and resumption of "normal" activity can begin , these areas will be expanded slowly like spilled oil spots expand on a rag .

combat operations will be run be local troops with American officers and NCOs at the helm , which will allow the locals to bear the brunt of the grunt work while American Air Force and arttilary will be on call and availible at the request of the "imbedded" American commanders .   in the pattern of the montengard and American Special forces in vietnam .   and also the pattern used in afgahnastan to sucsessfully subdue the taliban / al qaeda .

another overlooked statement is that the graduates of Annapolis [Navy] will be leading marines into combat to destroy pockets of bad guys.

Date: Fri Dec 2 11:40 AM, 2005

MOTM--"will be on call and availible at the request of the "imbedded" American commanders . in the pattern of the montengard and American Special forces in vietnam . and also the pattern used in afgahnastan to sucsessfully subdue the taliban / al qaeda . "

---------------------

in the pattern of the montengard and American Special forces in vietnam--OMG. Not the Montenyards! Pol Pot next, right after this. Wonderful.

"and also the pattern used in afgahnastan to sucsessfully subdue the taliban / al qaeda ."

After the fact... And also the pattern used 1. for America to build the desert and high mountain pass roads (1950-1970s) through Afganistan that were later used by the Soviets to advance and invade, and then of course 2. you have the fact that the United States established and helped to set up the Taliban in the first place, and let's not forget 3. that president Bush's family friend's the Bin Ladin family, financially supported the Taliban too.

Definition=QUAGMIRE + Death

Phantom · Veteran Member

Pres. Bush, "strategery" is more than outlining goals. You have to specifically outline how you will attain those goals. You can't just keep walking around the desert, asking people if they're the enemy and shooting whoever says yes.

This isn't a war, it's a joke...and the joke's on us

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Annoying-mouse wrote:

MOTM--"will be on call and availible at the request of the "imbedded" American commanders .   in the pattern of the montengard and American Special forces in vietnam .   and also the pattern used in afgahnastan to sucsessfully subdue the taliban / al qaeda . "   --------------------- in the pattern of the montengard and American Special forces in vietnam--OMG. Not the Montenyards! Pol Pot next, right after this. Wonderful.

the Montengards are an indiginous people located between cambodia and vietnam , they belong to neither country and are shunned by both countries , they are in no way related to the KR or Pol Pot .   they fought alongside American spec ops teams and were butchered by the north vietnamese when they overan vietnam and then attacked west into cambodia after the Americans pulled out .

"and also the pattern used in afgahnastan to sucsessfully subdue the taliban / al qaeda ." After the fact... And also the pattern used 1. for America to build the desert and high mountain pass roads (1950-1970s) through Afganistan that were later used by the Soviets to advance and invade, and then of course 2.

the soviets were unable to do in 10 years what local militia run by local warlords commanded by imbedded American special forces did in less than one year . so what is your point ?   that our military is better than the Soviets ?, or better than the taliban ?    or choice C our Military's spec ops units commanding local militia is better than the soviets military and the taliban ?

  you have the fact that the United States established and helped to set up the Taliban in the first place, and let's not forget 3.

i can show with osama sans own words that the statement above is false . show yourself and i will .

   the Bin Ladin family, financially supported the Taliban too.        the saudis  possibly with help from the bin ladin family [who are saudis] are the primary financial support for al qaeda and the remnents of the taliban .   when you buy gas for your car , you may be contributing to al qaeda .

3 strikes or 4, what ever , you are out .      read the link

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050901faessay84508/andrew-f-krepinevic h-jr/how-to-win-in-iraq.html

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

if you dont want to read about it, you may listen here to a brief descrption of the new strategy. although it is not as complete .

http://www.intelligencesummit.org/news/JohnLoftus/JL120105a.php