Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Online Dialog Forum -> General Forum -> IMPORTANT POPE NEWS - hours ago
Post Info TOPIC: IMPORTANT POPE NEWS - hours ago
Mindcrime


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 673
Date:
RE: IMPORTANT POPE NEWS - hours ago
Permalink Closed

Don't you dare tell someone to keep their mouth shut.


Of all places to do it, you chose an 'open forum' to spread your own poison of intolerance and censorship. You accuse Jimmy of not listening, and of exposing you to things you'd rather not see. Well, welcome to America. If you don't like what someone has to say, then argue the point, comment on their opinion, state your case rationally. But don't tell someone to shut up because you can't handle a differing opinon. Sounds like something Hitler would do...



__________________
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes... If you choose any truth and follow it blindly, it becomes a falsehood, and you, a fanatic.
NuclearLou


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 469
Date:
Permalink Closed

MINDCRIME:  AUCHTUNG!


TAKE A CHILL. I said nothing of the sort. No, not censorship. You're wrong. Take a look at why this Pope thread was even started before you get your arm band in a bunch. In the real world, what he's doing is called harassment. Jimmy Hufnagel made these same sorts of extremely antagonistic comments (and worse) before this new Pope-thread-over-here-to-get-away-from-him was set up--Go take a look. Did you forget Theresa Marie Shiavo and then his comments about hoping the previous Pope would hurry up and die?


That's why this thread was started, and, without exception, everyone was in agreement that HIS comments were inappropriate.


So, what you're saying then is that everyone has a "right" to harass others even after being asked to stop it by a majority? So, if I have a problem with a neighbor, and I'm forced to move away, THEN, that neighbor just decides to follow and move in again next to me--what do you suggest then? Shall I call the Brownshirts? Jackboot him to Timbuktoo? Give it a rest and hop down off the big soap box--of all people, you know what's going on here.


I'm not going to take the time for this... Read the start of the Schiavo-Pope-DEAD thread starring Jimmy The Offensive,  MINDCRIME.


Auf Wiedersehen, choos,


Hermann Louis Ricciuti Gloebelfecal



__________________
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." Helen Keller "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

Mindcrime,

I absolutely agree in principle... That is, when somebody is stating an opinion.

However:
1. He stated no opinion... only spewing anti-religious rhetoric, meant to inflame.
2. As such, there was no attempt at starting dialog or in exploring fact... only venom.
3. Prejudices are NOT about differences of opinion, just blind hate.
4. An avowed Liberal activist that cannot respect and protect the diversity or differences in others is the ultimate hypocrite... and needs to be pointed out as such.
5. I have nothing but respect for ANY choice someone makes regarding their spiritual beliefs (including the choice to have none.) But, I will NOT have my choices or anybody elses beliefs held up to ridicule by anyone... including by those of deepest intellect or those with shallow, bitter exsistances that thrive on the trampling of others.

MW


__________________
Mindcrime


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 673
Date:
Permalink Closed


quote:





Originally posted by: Anonymous
1. He stated no opinion... only spewing anti-religious rhetoric, meant to inflame. What you call anti-religious rhetoric is an opinion, it just also happens to offend you. The very nature of opinions is that they are different.


2. As such, there was no attempt at starting dialog or in exploring fact... only venom. He seemed to be simply stating his position and leaving it for the consideration of others. Not every post has to be a structured essay.


3. Prejudices are NOT about differences of opinion, just blind hate. Actually, they are. A prejudice is nothing more than an another opinion. No opinion is correct. And EVERYBODY is biased against SOMETHING. For example, I'm biased against rich people. It's when I start attacking rich people in their BMW's that we have problems.


4. An avowed Liberal activist that cannot respect and protect the diversity or differences in others is the ultimate hypocrite... and needs to be pointed out as such. There are no greater hypocrites than religous zealots. (Especially Christian zealots)


5. I have nothing but respect for ANY choice someone makes regarding their spiritual beliefs (including the choice to have none.) But, I will NOT have my choices or anybody elses beliefs held up to ridicule by anyone... including by those of deepest intellect or those with shallow, bitter exsistances that thrive on the trampling of others. MW " Always be sure that what you view as an attack is not really just someone else stating an unpleasent fact. A wise teacher once said "Your focus determines your reality." If you see every anti-religious comment as a personal attack, you're going to generate phantom enemies. Understand that because you believe in something, it does make it any more real for anyone else.





As far as having the right to speak your mind, should I just hold my tongue for the rest of my life because something I say might make you uncomfortable? Should you? Part of our freedom of speech is that everyone has the same freedom. Havn't you seen protests by the Nazi party or the KKK? They always have a police escort to help protect their civil rights to free speech. I know a number of atheists who consider Christianity harrassing. They can't go anywhere without seeing a 'Jesus is my co-pilot" bumper sticker, or a God billboard. Wherever you look there's crosses and fish and X-mas decorations in October. They don't keep their beliefs to themselves, and nor should anyone.


Now if someone goads you into a response, then aren't you just feeding the problem? What I like about America is that while Person A is free to say anything he likes, Person B is just as free to ignore him.


Hey, just because it's an unpopular opinion doesn't make it wrong. Sometimes a majority means all the fools are on the same side.



__________________
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes... If you choose any truth and follow it blindly, it becomes a falsehood, and you, a fanatic.
Paper Tigress


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 94
Date:
Permalink Closed


You most certainly did call for censorship:


quote:

Originally posted by: NuclearLou
"You not only can't take a hint, but you won't listen to reason, or to people trying to get along without you, will you?  


Is it that you can't take the hint, can't read, or is it that you are just looking to hurt other's feelings? From your previous comments, it's not hard to see that you target whomever it is you think you can get the most response from.


I've asked you once to stay out of this area unless you have something constructive to say or leave


Not only CAN'T YOU READ but obviously you can't do math very well either


Please stay OUT of this area with your poison.


Like my Mom use to say--"It takes all kinds kid"-- but Momma just never said there'd be Jerks like these.  


 


You told him to get out and stay out several times, tried to tout your opinion as truth, said his opinion wasn't reasonable, and tried to discredit him as being beliggerant, then you lowered yourself to namecalling and ridiculing his math & reading skills.


You told him to shut up.



__________________
"If people could put rainbows in zoos, they would." -- Hobbes
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with him
In all his glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

*And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
and all the prophets (*)

Trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome(*)

Just trying to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just trying to make his way home
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

The hottest songs from Joan Osborne

__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

"...made these same sorts of extremely antagonistic comments (and worse) before this new Pope-thread-over-here-to-get-away-from-him was set up--Go take a look. Did you forget Theresa Marie Shiavo and then his comments about hoping the previous Pope would hurry up and die?

That's why this thread was started, and, without exception, everyone was in agreement that HIS comments were inappropriate.


POLL?????



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
RE: IMPORTANT osborne NEWS now
Permalink Closed

and from Kelly O--


You say,
I should do it differently.
I don’t,
Necessarily agree.
Stand up!
Sit down!
Be nice!
Did ya hear me ask for your advice?

Don’t bother,
Trying to tell me your beliefs.
Don’t want to,
Know which way it’s good to be.
Do this!
Do that!
On track!
Do me a favor and don’t talk back!

Round and round,
But the conversation always ends where it began.
Round and round,
And I need a vacation.
My god,
I’ve had it from you!

Shut up!
Don’t want to hear your voice.
Shut up!
I’m sick of all the noise.
There’s nothing you can say to me,
So get away from me.
Shut up!

Blah blah, blah blah, blah blah, blah blah.

That’s what,
It sounds like you said to me.
You nag and you brag and I gag,
There’s so much beauty in what we have.

You must,
Have better things that you can do.
Or just,
Love all around me too.
What you want,
What I need.
Oh please!
I think you get off,
On hearing yourself speak.

Round and round,
But the conversation always ends where it began.
Round and round,
And I need a vacation.
My god,
I’ve had it from you!

Shut up!
Don’t want to hear your voice.
Shut up!
I’m sick of all the noise.
There’s nothing you can say to me,
So get away from me.
Shut up!

Don’t want to be polite.
It’s messed up,
How you always think you’re right.
There’s nothing you can say,
That’s gonna change the way I am.
Shut up!

Round and round,
But the conversation always ends where it began.
Round and round,
And I need a vacation.
My god,
I’ve had it from you!

Shut up!
Don’t want to hear your voice.
Shut up!
I’m sick of all the noise.
There’s nothing you can say to me,
So get away from me.
Shut up!

Don’t want to be polite.
It’s messed up,
How you always think you’re right.
There’s nothing you can say,
That’s gonna change the way I am.
Shut up!



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
RE: IMPORTANT POPE NEWS - hours ago
Permalink Closed

1. He stated no opinion... only spewing anti-religious rhetoric, meant to inflame. What you call anti-religious rhetoric is an opinion, it just also happens to offend you. The very nature of opinions is that they are different.

Mere Rhetoric and opinion are different things entitely. Not the least of which is the absence of civility and the attempt at purposeful hurt that is the backbone of rhetoric.

2. As such, there was no attempt at starting dialog or in exploring fact... only venom. He seemed to be simply stating his position and leaving it for the consideration of others. Not every post has to be a structured essay.

There was no stated position. Only indicipherable and puposefully outlandish connections made between a man and the killings of millions of Jews.

3. Prejudices are NOT about differences of opinion, just blind hate. Actually, they are. A prejudice is nothing more than an another opinion. No opinion is correct. And EVERYBODY is biased against SOMETHING. For example, I'm biased against rich people. It's when I start attacking rich people in their BMW's that we have problems.

You are practicing semantics without a dictionary. Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgement on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies. Note the not so subtle difference in meaning between the definition of prejudice and opinion. As far as being biased against rich people... that manner of sweeping, all-encompasing bias is a prejudice so far off the map that I don't dare ask what the heck in your personal life is behind that..

4. An avowed Liberal activist that cannot respect and protect the diversity or differences in others is the ultimate hypocrite... and needs to be pointed out as such. There are no greater hypocrites than religous zealots. (Especially Christian zealots)

I haven't been to a church in years, so I can't really relate to your point as it concerns me. I am personnaly distressed by Christian zeolotry and the likes of Robertson, Falwell and on and on. I personally am of the opinion they are disingenuous, power-mongers. If modern Christians were filming themselves shouting "Jesus is Lord" and cutting off heads, I would be at the forefront of the packs routing them out.

5. I have nothing but respect for ANY choice someone makes regarding their spiritual beliefs (including the choice to have none.) But, I will NOT have my choices or anybody elses beliefs held up to ridicule by anyone... including by those of deepest intellect or those with shallow, bitter exsistances that thrive on the trampling of others. MW " Always be sure that what you view as an attack is not really just someone else stating an unpleasent fact. A wise teacher once said "Your focus determines your reality." If you see every anti-religious comment as a personal attack, you're going to generate phantom enemies. Understand that because you believe in something, it does make it any more real for anyone else.

Your apparent belief in this particular prejudice leads you to see some fact that was never mentioned in his post. Only implied connections and hatred... but nothing approaching a fact. I honestly do not care whether you, Jim or anybody else has any spiritual beliefs at all... it does not concern me. But I know you will never find me in any forum or in person, admonishing, mocking or falsely accusing someone for their atheism, religious beliefs, color, or personal worth. Civility and respect are cornerstones to peace and coexsistance in a world sorely lacking in all the above.

I know a number of atheists who consider Christianity harrassing. They can't go anywhere without seeing a 'Jesus is my co-pilot" bumper sticker, or a God billboard. Wherever you look there's crosses and fish and X-mas decorations in October. They don't keep their beliefs to themselves, and nor should anyone.

Please, do not go to the middle-east, and be offended and harrassed as the whole of the country stops to kneel and pray at certain times of the day. Or, for that matter any country, as their traditions, beliefs and customs will only serve to bring about feelings of harrassment. At least in America, you can feel free not to stop to pray, or you can hang up your own billboard stating "I do not believe" - and that would be fine... no one will remove your head. This thread isn't about your right to celebrate whatever beliefs you may have in a way that works for you. Please state your beliefs as that sounds like a positive dialog opportunity. What this thread has become however is about the uncivil ridiculing and marginalization of people for their beliefs to create some evil face that someone can use to pin their hatred on.

I sincerely wish you peace, love and respect in whatever form works for you.
MW

__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

    God is always with you.Know matter what his name is to you or me or the person down the street.Fighting and name calling is never good............The Scarlet Letter

__________________
alwayswatching


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 537
Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: alwayswatching
"I have to agree that Jim's comments are in really bad taste. I don't think anyone here feels you have to agree with the Pope to show respect. You don't like his teaching, so it's ok to bash him while he is on his death bed. What does that say about you? Please don't kick my dog on your way out!"

Hello! Do you posters really believe that the posts early on were JHs opinion? They were hateful garbage. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but that is not a license to spew pure hate. That is exactly what has happened on his early postings.


This poster you are defending crossed the line big time. If he has a reasonable statement to post, let’s hear it. This is a simple matter of respect for others, or do on to others. Read page one of this thread, hate only creates hate. This is not the place for that! AW



__________________
James Hufnagel


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Date:
Permalink Closed

It looks like Pope Eggs Benedict was in fact in the Nazi Youth. No one on this list seems to dispute that. But there's more...


Here's something I pulled off the "Catholic Answers" web site:


John Allen Jr., journalist for the National Catholic Reporter and author of 2002's biography of the pope: The Vatican's Enforcer of the Faith, supplies the historical details sorely lacking in other reports: As a seminarian, he was briefly enrolled in the Hitler Youth in the early 1940s, though he was never a member of the Nazi party. In 1943 he was conscripted into an antiaircraft unit guarding a BMW plant outside Munich. Later Ratzinger was sent to Austria's border with Hungary to erect tank traps. After being shipped back to Bavaria, he deserted. When the war ended, he was an American prisoner of war.


Anyone got a guess as to whether the "desertion" took place when the Third Army crashed Oktoberfest?


Up until then, I guess he was only following orders.


 



__________________
let the sun beat down upon my face - And stars to fill my dreams
kspeer


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 414
Date:
Permalink Closed

Is it true Benny the 16th was a member of Hitler youth? Well, if so, he was in good company, when it comes to Nazi activities that is. - posted by JH


Interesting how the name Hufnagel when searched on familynames.com has a German/Bavarian lineage.

__________________
Borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back.
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

AUCTUNG!  Ya, ya, ess trueben, Das Her Hufnagel essass booten campen und Naci-ism sticht. Kapoot und kreeten trublesumen vit allesmen und leiderhosen schockt womener.


Ischt eich ein Berliner? Nine, ischt Wil-soneeke. Der schnitzel riden und knickers hurst uponvon Hufnageles und Bavarian Naci-ss-wierden-gruber huut Mengele fache. Ya volt mein Herless schnitzel likten!


Feedurswinen



__________________
Mindcrime


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 673
Date:
Permalink Closed

And now, for your dancing pleasure, Lilly Von Schtupp...

__________________
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes... If you choose any truth and follow it blindly, it becomes a falsehood, and you, a fanatic.
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

Ya, ya...Lily von Stupp..  :!)~


Eis Lillyin Vonderbra!  Aukdu leiber meinwienersnitzsen..!



__________________
jspeer


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 636
Date:
Permalink Closed

JH, do you know anything about WW2? If you did you would Know that German boys were forced to fight. The women, young and elderly were taken to camps or killed and the able bodied men were forced to fight. Do you blame all muslims for 911 also? I think the pope will be forgiven.

__________________
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
alwayswatching


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 537
Date:
Permalink Closed

Oh yeah he had a choice! There is a reason this dictatorship was smashed to pieces. I believe it had something to do with the dictator. It was very common to defect once liberating troups arrived, these soldiers offered protection. Think about it, they would rather be a prisoner for the other side. That says a lot.

__________________
Mindcrime


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 673
Date:
Permalink Closed

Wouldn't the Christian thing to do would have been to deny nazism, and let them imprison or kill you? Turn the other cheek and what not? After all, he who is persecuted in His name gets a good seat in Heaven, right? Why would he choose to join them?



__________________
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes... If you choose any truth and follow it blindly, it becomes a falsehood, and you, a fanatic.
alwayswatching


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 537
Date:
Permalink Closed

Not for a second, do I believe he had a choice. And if he did, I'd have to say he made the right one. He did, after all, go on to do great things for a lot of people. If he had refused Hitler he would have probably been killed. He would have died taking a stand that some would admire. He picked life and then used that life in a very positive way. How can that be wrong?

__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

       Very well put AW......Dovey

__________________
kspeer


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 414
Date:
Permalink Closed

My Grandfather and Great Grandfather also made the same choice. They came through their village in Yugoslavia and made all the men and boys join Hitler's army. While the men were away, the Serbs came and took all their homes. The remaining women and children walked to a concentration camp by orders from Germany. My Great Grandfather was never heard from again. My Grandfather eventually made it to Austria, where he met my Grandmother and married her. He learned his trade as a barber as an apprentice to a Serbian barber in Austria. After gathering up all the relatives still alive on my Grandfather's side, they came to America when my mother was nine years old and settled in Cleveland. My Grandmother worked in a sweat shop and my Grandfather eventually opened his own barber shop.

He never spoke about his time in Hitler's army. Even when I had to do a report interviewing a World War 2 veteran in 11th grade, I got no answers from him. He even wrote our entire family history which my mother translated and gave all of us a copy, and there is no mention of this period of time. I think it was that way for many of the men serving under Hitler's regime. They did what they had to do to survive.

__________________
Borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back.
jspeer


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 636
Date:
Permalink Closed

MC, I think you missed the point I was making. If they threatened to kill me to sacrifice my beliefs , I would have chose the bullet in my head. They threatened to kill people's families and for that I would have done whatever was asked of me to save my family. Even acting like I was a Nazi.

__________________
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink Closed

             Du Bis Mein Schmetterling....................Dovey

__________________
James Hufnagel


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Date:
Permalink Closed

*** Vatican Press Release ***


Wednesday, May 4, 2005 (AP) - Today the Vatican, on behalf of Pope Benedict XVI, in a stunning announcement, revealed that henceforth all papal pronouncements and encyclicals will end with the following disclaimer:


"Now I'm pretty sure this is what God really wants, at least that's the way it seems to me."



__________________
let the sun beat down upon my face - And stars to fill my dreams
«First  <  1 2 3  >  Last»  | Page of 3  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Online Dialog Forum -> General Forum -> IMPORTANT POPE NEWS - hours ago
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard