AIr Base - CLOSE IT NOW!

ScottLefler · Member

AIr Base - CLOSE IT NOW!

kspeer · Senior Member

The NF Air Base has caused Niagara to be a nuclear target for decades.

Unfortunately, so is the Power Project, Somerset, and the nuclear power plant that is in my hometown. It is only about three hours from here, so we would not be safe from the fallout depending on wind direction (just die slower).

BTW - noticed the one "f"

-- Edited by kspeer at 10:32, 2005-05-13

forgottenchild · Veteran Member

quote:
Originally posted by: ScottLefler
"The NF Air Base has caused Niagara to be a nuclear target for decades. Some say that it is still targeted by more than ten megatons of Russian warheads. That's enough fire power to blast the CN tower over. The local base could do NOTHING here in the event of an attack--they are tankers (gas station jockeys) now. Close the base and hand it over to NASA to launch probes. The Air Base has also been off the tax rolls since the 1940s...there's terrific contamination on the base, including that stuff that's over in Lewiston and Porter...(maybe they'll clean it up before they leave. One other point is this--The Niagara Military Affairs Council, the group lobbying to keep this military installation in operation, is headed by a fellow named Merrill Lane (Lane Funeral Home). He's the same fellow who's business accepted many corpses for burial from the Viet Nam and Korean conflicts. There was profit involved. As a matter of fact, this representative for the base is a second generation mortician. Does anyone else find this ironic or fascinating that this person is the promoter of the same group that wants the base to stay open?? WOW! This Niagara Falls Base is NOT of ANY STRATEGIC VALUE to the US Military forces. IT IS NOT AN ASSET, it is a LIABILITY to every resident of Niagara County! ScotLefler"

scot, you need to read more of this site. Niagara county with all of its existing chemical plants is a real live chemical war head. Kspeer pointed out the power projects as other major targets, and would be correct. The air base is not a target, but rather a major employer in a county that has vary few. At one time this was a major hub of military activity, but now is just a waist land for it's garbage.

ScottLefler · Member

The NFARS-AFB protects NOTHING around Niagara County. Did you know that some of the AFB employees LIVE IN CANADA and take US dollars home with them every night. Guess you'd never figure that one. It is true. There are NO LONGER the chemical ass

Date: Fri May 13 10:34 AM, 2005

One wonders how many identities can be used on this board to puff up agendas and postions. At least anonymously, as Mindcrime so elegantly pointed out, words thoughts and ideas must stand on their own, without personal animosities, personal history or physical ugliness or prettiness coloring the dialog. I will not give a face to my opinions - my opinions are just that, no more authoritve or important than anybody elses. This way I have no face to save, pride to prove, reputation to advance, and no long term agenda to protect. Most of the fine folks on this board are no more than a funny picture and a cute alias and therefore still anonymous anyway.

But, on to the airbase discusion... Who are the knowledgeable people that say that the airbase is still a target to ten megatons of nuclear destruction? Just wondering, as it could be true I suppose - but what secret Soviet documents or covert operations could validate this claim? Just wondering - if this airbase closed will these missles be redirected at a more worthwhile target - such as the Niagara power plant in Lewiston? Is that even more likely the target now, if they are still directed this way?

The airbase is off the tax rolls, yet they continue to employ many people and create significant economic spin off benefits for the community. When the base closes will this land find some magical use that will be willing to pay our huge taxes here?

Without the base to manage and help pay for and fix the runways, will Niagara Falls International Airprt have evn more opportunity to resurrect?

Without these gas stations jockeys, I wonder how forces would mobilize. The statement that it is of no strategic value is an opinion and can not be labeled a statement of fact. All the heroic men and women from there that have sacrificed so much out of their lives (over the last few years especially) have been of great importance to operations. If the airbase is eventually finally deemed less important than other bases and it is decided it needs to close then we can hope that it was the right decision for the long haul and I will feel badly for the lives that will be changed because of it.

The other point - concerning who is lobbying for the base has no basis in the facts or of assertaining the importance of the airbase. That is whatever it is - but the fact of that makes zero difference in what the base is or is not. These things only matter to those that have decided one way in an issue and don't change the facts of the issue itself.

It is a shame that our base has been put on the blacklist. Although it will take a number of years to phase it out if this holds up, it will be a tough economic pill for so many people of this arae to have to swallow.

Best wishes to all the super people of the military and their families that give so much and now must contend with this.

alwayswatching · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: ScottLefler
"The NFARS-AFB protects NOTHING around Niagara County. Did you know that some of the AFB employees LIVE IN CANADA and take US dollars home with them every night. Guess you'd never figure that one. It is true. There are NO LONGER the chemical ass"

I had no idea they have canadians working on that base. I hope they have passports, sorry. But they are one of the counties largest employers, an that does pump money back into the local economy.

Paper Tigress · Veteran Member

The NF Air Base is of VERY strategic value. It's not really a military target, as such, but as others have pointed out, the power project is. It supplies power to half the eastern seaboard. Somerset is also worth knocking out.

The base is also the nearest to several international border crossings, which due to water boundaries, are much more important. We may not have to worry about Canada attacking us, but other attackers would certainly use it as a point of entry.

ScottLefler · Member

Lets start by saying that the NF Air Base operates without the safety net of environmental controls. If jobs are the only consideration, then there needs to be more jobs at FMC also. At least there are some enviro laws that must be followed. About the "protection" that this base would offer to the area. Other than several hundred weapons, there is NOTHING that the base could do here. There are no longer fighters and no helicopters. SO, unless the NFAFB can do something about security from on high (30,000ft) and at speed (400knots), you, me, we are on our own. Get a gun for your house if you think that we need to protect the area. About the power plant--not a chance that the NFAFB could do anything there either. What would they do> Sweep up. Besides, this power plant has VERY LITTLE strategic value anymore. If something happened here, the power company would simply switch the transformers and change to other producers on the grid. If things work like they are supposed to, you would see the lights blick. About the chemical plants needing protection--what chemical plants? There are less than 500 workers employed in that entire business anymore and most critical operations at the remaining chemical plants in Niagara are pool chemicals and energy for waste incineration. Waste landfilling is Niagara's biggest stock-in-trade. There's no more Nabisco to protect and there's as much plywood on Buffalo Avenue as there is in most 84 lumberyards.

The 60 year old Niagara Falls Air Reserve Station has finally (thank God) reached its life limit. The tankers are needed closer to the oceans for instant deployment, not from here. If you're really and sincerely interested in the safety of OUR Country, then this base and its assets MUST BE MOVED closer to the coast(s) (either). We should not make these discussions, judgements, opinions, etc. without considering these things and not soley on the issue of local jobs. As stated at the beginning of this post: The air base operates under NO environmental oversight, and if the same logic is followed about jobs--then ANYTHING IN NIAGARA COUNTY should be a go...including your previously discussed Ho--house!

Think about this for a moment--Who gets to decide what's the right thing for OUR Community?

THAT's why this must be thought through thoroughly.

SL

alwayswatching · Guru

You make some very good point Fake Scott. I do know that the base still has choppers. They are constantly flying a security grid over the area. I know this for a fact. Watch the sky on a clear night and you will see them. Are they armed, probably not, but they are up watching. AW

me · Member

"One wonders how many identities can be used on this board to puff up agendas and postions. At least anonymously,"

Very

Dovey · Senior Member

no comment....

-- Edited by Dovey at 10:09, 2005-06-12

myself · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: me
""One wonders how many identities can be used on this board to puff up agendas and postions. At least anonymously," Very"

Good

Member

quote:
Originally posted by: myself
"Good "

Question

Date: Fri May 13 7:03 PM, 2005

As I said in my previous post and again for the sake of my stated position and poster identification:

If the airbase is eventually finally deemed less important than other bases and it is decided it needs to close then we can hope that it was the right decision for the long haul and I will feel badly for the lives that will be changed because of it.

So, I do agree that in spite of the lost jobs and the heartbreak and hardship for many families this will cause, that the final decision must be on what is right and most advantageous for the country as a whole.

However, I want to back up a bit here. Scot(one "F")Lefler was the individual that bought up most of these other points that individuals, including myself, commented on:

The tax roll issue as it relates to the economic side of the Airbase equation was bought up by NukeScot.

The prospect, as rumored by the mysterious but informed someone or other - of our potential 10 megaton nuclear targeting and destruction because of this airbase is why individuals here bought up the power plant - to highlight the fallacy of that point as an issue. As for the lights just blinking and all being well after the power plant blew... it seems the last major power outages didn't quite work to the master plans. If the missles flew, is it very reasonable to expect any enemy to say that "we have knocked out one power plant - the infidels are defeated." The big picture is is certainly not so neat and simplistic as this.

The mention that the base serves no local protection services... all I can say is, NO KIDDING. If we needed the base for local protection from overseas enemies then wouldn't every community demand one? I don't think the motto at the airbase is "To Serve and Protect the Western New York community from the red or yellow menace." These bases are located in many different areas of the country for many reasons and I doubt that protecting that particular area from attack is anywhere near the top of the list. But if putting them all on the coasts where they can be most quickly taken out is best, lets do that.

Most of the issues Scot raised, including the conspiracy to keep bodies going to a local funeral home, were apparently to build a case thinly disguising the real concern he now targets on - the ever-present-no-matter-what-else-is-being-discussed contamination problems.

Yes, lets clean up what needs cleaning up... but turning the area into a ghost town somehow seams like a last ditch solution.

Date: Fri May 13 8:15 PM, 2005

How many Anonymous'(s?) can we use?

"Stated opinion"...well that's interesting... by definition a "stated opinion" must be attached to "someone." An Anonymous can not have a "stated opinion." Opinions are like as__o__s.

You may leave graffitti though. That's all this is.

Date: Fri May 13 8:32 PM, 2005

-One anonymous writer said-

----But, on to the airbase discusion (sic)... Who are the knowledgeable (sic) people that say that the airbase is still a target to ten megatons of nuclear destruction? Just wondering, as it could be true I suppose - but what secret Soviet documents or covert operations could validate this claim? Just wondering - if this airbase closed will these missles be redirected at a more worthwhile target - such as the Niagara power plant in Lewiston? Is that even more likely the target now, if they are still directed this way?-----

No, the Niagara Power plant is quite safe where it sits--well, sort of, read on.

Try Jane's, Bulletin of AS, ANR, the previous US CD...AND it's still a US mil base. Get it?

Get a book too--TEN MEGATONS DESTROYS EVERYTHING between the brink of your falls and the city of Lockport, NY...and then some. In nuclear physics and weaponry it is called "Yield." The Niagara Power Plant is the least of the worries--think atomic--NOT hydro. Way more destructive and disruptive.

It is common knowledge that every US industrial city was targeted with at least 10MT.

Do an Internet search. Do a search for "Sacrifice Area" or zone--Niagara County is the poster child.

Militarily-industrially raped and some still at Niagara want to stick up for those that stuck it to you citizens. The generals made War, the corporations made $Mmoney$ and then left you poor slobs with the mess, which sounds like it includes diseases such as cancer and the sort...Sounds like it's making you all crazy too. Must be the water.

A strangers two sense.

Date: Fri May 13 8:46 PM, 2005

no thanks NuklearScotLouDude.

Until the real Scott determines that anonymous people are not really people too, then I will stay out of the public limelight that you feed from. When anonymous people are determined to be worth nothing and have nothing to say, then I will cease to exist. Isn't it unfortunate that this isn't your determination? Scott with two "F.s" has told you this, in case you missed his post.

Just becasue you or anyone who freely puts themselves in a position of courting the public eyes and ears, be it in PR, politics, activism or entertainment does not mean that others must be so inclined. We are still people who matter, just not people you can harrass, threaten, vilify or chastise with the over the top, sarcasm dripping condescension you use to smother all who don't follow your call.

My grafitti bothers you because it exposes your inability to respond to valid points pertinent to the discussion instead of attempts at justifying positions through backdoor arguements and misdirection.

I have never been public and never well be. Get used to it.

and if my lack of corrct spelling is confusing you... because we all know how critical that is to a point - sorry.

alwayswatching · Guru

Welcome stranger, what part of our fine planet are you from? AW

Nukedlou · Veteran Member

They can't close it....who will clean up all the chemicals in the ground when they leave? Maybe they can build a school on it. What do you think Julie....I mean AW.

alwayswatching · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Nukedlou
"They can't close it....who will clean up all the chemicals in the ground when they leave? Maybe they can build a school on it. What do you think Julie....I mean AW."

Oh now I know who it is in the photo, aren't you a clever one! But why would you think thats me? Julie is a diehard FMC fan. And FYI, I don't think she and I have ever met. And for the record, I grew up in this town, but I was smart enough not to stay. I have not lived in middleport for well over 20 years. No sorry no bag of glow in the dark dirt for you, but please play again. AW

NuclearLou · Senior Member

To Anonymous:

I don't understand why you are confusing me with all of these other entities...

Let me say this, if I want to direct anything at anyone, I will do it with my name attached. Cause, that's the kind of guy my Father wanted me to be. It's called standup.

To the Nukedlou guy. You're funny by using some of your drug past and trying to confuse it in any way with me... You're the one that must be having a flashback of some sort to think I care.

Anyway, to some of you folks, I think I'll just ignore the goofiest of these posts and still be here for those that are serious and sober!

There's an aweful lot of effort being expended here in the attacks and I find it very amusing that I have become the Ground Zero of these comments.

"Keep those cards and letters coming."

Best to all,

Lou R

Dovey · Senior Member

no comment

-- Edited by Dovey at 10:08, 2005-06-12

alwayswatching · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Dovey
" I think it is really neat you could fight with out me last night.I feel so left out.I'm also glad someone else can not spell..........To my point.Base A.Niagara falls...Base B.fort drum...how many nuke plants along the lake can you count.....Now people I know N.F.is contaminated but,You may want some back up for the lake shore.............If they take out the N.f. one .They could dig it up and put a mall there and all the dirt will fly around.Sorry I went to sleep last night!"

I alwayswathching aka mj would like to say for the record. These plants did not do anything wrong (while looking left). I don't understand why you posters think they have. Why just look at all the money they donate to the local kids programs. The are the corporate good guys. Now please excuse me while I was my brain out with soap.

forgottenchild · Veteran Member

FYI

Show your support for our Air Base

There will be a rally in support of keeping the NF Air Base open. The
rally will be held at the Summit Park Mall on Sunday 2:00 P.M. The
rally is being hosted by all of our elected officials. Closure of the
base would be economically devastating to this community. Come and
show
your support.

Buffalo News Article:
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050514/1003513.asp

jspeer · Guru

Finally FC, something we both agree on.