FULL CIRCLE - SEE FINAL POST AND ENTRY - ALSO NOTE - THIS WAS A SPLIT THREAD

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 22 7:12 PM, 2005
Views: 330
 Quote | Reply
THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Not a clue ,

-- Edited by Dovey at 22:13, 2005-05-25

--------------------------

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 22 8:57 PM, 2005
Views: 323
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     One for the road

-- Edited by Dovey at 22:15, 2005-05-25

 -----------------------------

Mike of the Mountin
Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 23 2:57 AM, 2005
Views: 312
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
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i missed something ?  again ? 

anyway no one brought up the green washing article by sean kelly, in the niagara falls gazette  , which i have not yet read as i cant open it from the archives yet ?  

    i am not thinking that getting off focus of the LOOW problem is a good thing .
--------------------

NuclearLou

Senior Member

Posts: 466
Date: Tue May 24 11:23 PM, 2005
Views: 296
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mike of the Mountain:

I'd like to refer you over to the other thread where the Robert Moses Parkway is being discussed with a Mr. James Hufnagel. Not so much for the power plant safety aspects, but more so for the statement that there are documents that exist, that say things are leaking upstream of the LOOW-- Lewiston-Porter Schools and Youngstown, but are not being presented for a look-see.

I guess it's ok for things to drain on down towards and past L-P. You know, gravity, the river and all. You'll see where one member of an "environmental" group is now telling me that there are EPA documents that they have withheld "That I'd cream over."

This is a wonderful situation to deal with isn't it?

Maybe you can make some sense of all this. I'm baffled why these documents were only mentioned now, as some sort of poke-in-the-eye, and never offered before. Please keep in mind that I have provided this same environemtnal group with hundreds of hours of research over the last seven or eight years. Imagine that.

Best,

-----------------------------

CONTACT NIAGARA HERITAGE PARTNERSHIP at: NiagaraHeritage@aol.com

(You may want to ask for an electronic receipt if available to you.)

__________________
"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man." "He looks at you once you know he understands." I'd rather be a professional amateur like a few, rather than an Amateur Professional like the many.
----------------------------

alwayswatching  (SHughes)
Posts: 537
Date: Wed May 25 9:06 AM, 2005
Views: 288
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:39, 2005-06-10

--------------------------------

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 9:17 AM, 2005
Views: 284
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by Dovey at 12:40, 2005-06-10

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Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 12:24 PM, 2005
Views: 276
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

. no comment

-- Edited by Dovey at 08:13, 2005-06-11

------------------------------------

Alwayswatching  (SHughes)
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Wed May 25 12:49 PM, 2005
Views: 273
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:40, 2005-06-10

----------------------------------

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 12:54 PM, 2005
Views: 270
RE: RE: RE: THE LOOW
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i was told not to speak......

-- Edited by Dovey at 08:14, 2005-06-11
 
-----------------------------

Anonymous
Date: Thu May 26 7:40 PM, 2005
Views: 227
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works

Thursday, 8/24,  the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York against the federal government and Olin Corporation due to environmental contamination of the former Lake Ontario Ordnance Works (LOOW) in the Towns of Porter and Lewiston, Niagara County. 

In 1970, the  Somerset Group acquired 132 acres of LOOW property without knowledge of the contamination, and still owns 39 acres of the contaminated property. The Syms property was contaminated with radioactive waste from the Manhattan Project, as well as toxic and explosive chemicals from various defense programs conducted at LOOW, including a TNT factory, and a rocket fuel plant operated by Olin. It is less than one half mile from the Niagara Falls Storage Site (NFSS), the government storage area for radioactive waste from nuclear weapons. The plaintiffs' efforts to develop an industrial park on the site were stymied by a 1972 abatement order issued by the New York State Department of Health, prohibiting any use of the site due to radioactive contamination.

By 1992, the Government presented that the radioactive contamination had been removed from the Site to the NFSS. However, with recent reports that the NFSS is leaking, which is connected to the property via a drainage ditch, and through recent testing conducted by the Army Corps of Engineers, which discovered explosive, toxic and asbestos waste contamination on the property, plaintiffs filed the action to demand immediate remediation of their property. 

Although the Syms have cooperated with ongoing efforts of the Department of Defense to conduct an investigation of the contaminated property, the investigation has been ongoing for many years with no remediation in sight.  The government has failed to address numerous environmental concerns on the property and in the community surrounding the site and the LOOW.   "The time has come for the government to start cleaning up the property and the LOOW in order to protect this community", said John Syms. The plaintiffs seek $25 million in damages, largely arising out of their inability to use the land or conduct business on their property due to the contamination.   Their claims arise under federal and state environmental statutes, and common law theories including public nuisance. 

The plaintiffs are represented by environmental lawyers Linda Shaw and Alan Knauf from the Rochester law firm of Knauf Koegel & Shaw, LLP.  Ronald Kuis, an environmental attorney and registered professional nuclear engineer from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, has been acted as a technical expert on the case.  "The property at issue in this case should have never been sold by the government to private citizens. Given the new information being revealed about radiation levels outside of the NFSS, the Syms site, the NFSS and all of the contaminated LOOW property should be a top priority for immediate cleanup by the federal government", said attorney Linda Shaw.  A trial date has not been set.  (8/25/

-----------------------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 12:24 PM, 2005
Views: 215
RE: THE LOOW
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Everyone mentioned is known to me. Except one that's dead...can't know me no more.

Why no dates? Three, four year old articles with several inaccuracies.

--------------------------------------------------------

Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 12:25 PM, 2005
Views: 214
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environmental News   AUGUST 2002
... Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works. Thursday,
8/24, the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed ...
www.lockport-ny.com/enviro.htm - 67k - Cached - Similar pages   August 2002

---------------------------------

Anonymous  (Dovey)
Date: Fri May 27 3:48 PM, 2005
Views: 205
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
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I think the imfo. is as good as I have seen.

----------------------------------------------

Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 3:52 PM, 2005
Views: 203
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also: www.atomicniagara.wny.org

-------------------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Sat May 28 9:13 AM, 2005
Views: 187
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: THE LOOW
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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"Environmental News   AUGUST 2002... Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works. Thursday,8/24, the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed ...www.lockport-ny.com/enviro.htm - 67k - Cached - Similar pages   August 2002"

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Eagle
Member

Posts: 5
Date: Sat May 28 12:06 PM, 2005
Views: 178
RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by Eagle at 15:53, 2005-06-10

------------------------------------------------

Anonymous  (Mike of the Mountain)
Date: Sun May 29 6:35 AM, 2005
Views: 163
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glaciolacustrine Sediments are Weak

This is the site of two dams. Two attempts were made to build a dam on glaciolacustrine clays near Gayhurst, Quebec. Both dams collapsed when the saturated clays failed.

Lecture 1 - Introduction Images

------------------------------

HAVE NO WONDER AND MAKE NO MISTAKE WHO ASKED THE CAVE QUESTIONS THAT STARTED THIS!

He doesn't post anonymously....Hmm?
mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Sun May 29 4:47 PM, 2005
Views: 152
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Eagle
"Down in a cave lives four divided area's known as the NFSS.The clay seals these,but you know that.Should always be at the top.Just incase IT comes to the top!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it has been shown that the clay under the various dump sites in side of the LOOW site has imperfections and also "leaks"   ,    right now one of the operaters is sucking ground water from the site and after testing the water , sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park , this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site   ,    the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer ,  ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site   .      so what ? you say ?

      because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site ,  THE CONTAMINATED GROUND WATER UNDER THE LOOW SITE can not flow outwards and infect the aquifer [in theory anyway].     any more than has already been done before the wells were installed .

               and so that the nasty stuff that has leaked already from the permeable clay layers will be absorbed in the soil between the wells and the area of contamination .    thus rendering the LOOW site to be un repairable , no amount or remediation could recover all of the contamination already dispersed throught the RADIACTIVE WASTE DUMP SITES ,  including the NFSS area .            all this a few hundered meters from the LewPort Schools ....

          if the powers that be did not believe the above statements , they had no reason to ever drill the wells and begin evacuating the ground water in the first place ..... the wells are there .                 so are the schools .....

---------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun May 29 7:52 PM, 2005
Views: 142
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where are these four caves? What's in them exactly? Are they open to exploring?

"sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park"

Where is JD park? James Dean park--Does it discharge at the shoreline or underwater out into the river? Is this the line that runs along south of the schools or one under the L-P schools?

"this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination"

 Company says...............

-------------------------------------

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 29 8:55 PM, 2005
Views: 134
RE RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by Dovey at 17:29, 2005-06-01

-----------------------------------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Mon May 30 1:25 AM, 2005
Views: 128
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's in the caves exactly? Is it dangerous?
 
-----------------------------------

mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 30 2:52 AM, 2005
Views: 355
RE: RE: THE LOOW
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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park" Where is JD park?  park    Joesph Davis .

--Does it discharge at the shoreline or underwater out into the river? Is this the line that runs along south of the schools or one under the L-P schools? "this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination"    i dont know the answer to the discharge location ? but i can not find even that reference , i will search til i re find it .

related   -   http://www.niagara-gazette.com/print_story.asp?id=1585  

 Company says...............  "   ?  as little as possible ....

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NuclearLou

Senior Member

Posts: 466
Date: Mon May 30 2:55 AM, 2005
Views: 354
RE: THE LOOW
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I don't know where this information is coming from but it is a CROCK!  Sorry.

Here are pictures of two seperate creeks flowing AWAY from the US Government Manhattan Engineering District--Atomic Energy Commission, NE Chemical Warfare, 2 secret Air Force factories, Lake Ontario Ordnance Works, Niagara Falls (radiological) Storage Site and "host community" of others including commercial landfilling operations (a hazardous and a sanitary-for your living pleasure)..

Go figure. Both creeks are flowing North East toward Lake Ontario and away from the old US Government Military site. These creeks do not go into any facilitiy or pipeline and are free flowing. So much for "containment" and "treatment." Next. GET A TOPOGRAPHICAL map for $25.00 from MyTOPO.com!

MIKE OF MOUNT. says-- "areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site, the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer, ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site.   so what ? you say ? "

"because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site,"

There is absolutely nothing further from the truth and physically impossible!

Talk to a hydrologist....OR, maybe that Dr. Tim guy of R.R.G.-R.O.L.E..he knows all about those pesky local water treatments and pipes... He stated on Dialog PodCast that he was in charge of local water safety and works for local water dept.  I believe Eagle might even know him. 

See following photos-- Just a note--I don't know if I'd get my technical information from the same local newspaper accepting advertising money from companies involved at LOOW for "Family Days."  Just a thought.

Above: Looking S , water flowing N away from LOOW.

Below: Looking NE at Route 93 - my back is to LOOW Site.

See lack of vegetation at the high water level..

Photos Copyright 2004-2005 Louis Ricciuti

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:58, 2005-05-30

__________________
"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man." "He looks at you once you know he understands." I'd rather be a professional amateur like a few, rather than an Amateur Professional like the many.
------------------------------

mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 30 10:43 AM, 2005
Views: 319
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: NuclearLou
"I don't know where this information is coming from but it is a CROCK!  Sorry. Here are pictures of two seperate creeks flowing AWAY from the US Government Manhattan Engineering District--Atomic Energy Commission, NE Chemical Warfare, 2 secret Air Force factories, Lake Ontario Ordnance Works, Niagara Falls (radiological) Storage Site and "host community" of others including commercial landfilling operations (a hazardous and a sanitary-for your living pleasure).. Go figure. Both creeks are flowing North East toward Lake Ontario and away from the old US Government Military site. These creeks do not go into any facilitiy or pipeline and are free flowing. So much for "containment" and "treatment." Next. GET A TOPOGRAPHICAL map for $25.00 from MyTOPO.com!  MIKE OF MOUNT. says-- "areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site, the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer, ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site.   so what ? you say ? " "because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site," There is absolutely nothing further from the truth and physically impossible! Talk to a hydrologist....OR, maybe that Dr. Tim guy of R.R.G.-R.O.L.E..he knows all about those pesky local water treatments and pipes... He stated on Dialog PodCast that he was in charge of local water safety and works for local water dept.  I believe Eagle might even know him.  See following photos-- Just a note--I don't know if I'd get my technical information from the same local newspaper accepting advertising money from companies involved at LOOW for "Family Days."  Just a thought.  Above: Looking S , water flowing N away from LOOW. Below: Looking NE at Route 93 - my back is to LOOW Site. See lack of vegetation at the high water level.. Photos Copyright 2004-2005 Louis Ricciuti-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:58, 2005-05-30"

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ok ,    i can not document what i typed , i accepted the word of the person that explained it to me - without verifieing it - i was wrong to do that - therefore i retract what i typed above - i accept responsebility for my mistake - i imagine the person that explained that to me is having a good laugh about now , but still --- i was the one who did not verify the info i am at fault , i apologise - i will not repeat my error .

               Michael Webb

---------------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Mon May 30 10:57 AM, 2005
Views: 316
RE: THE LOOW
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Mr. Webb: Your reference was a letter to the editor that appeared in the Niagara Gazette, dated Monday, February 9, 2005, page 9A, titled "Activism works only when based on facts," written by Niagara River Angler's Association past official, Mr. Michael Gillis. Remember of course, that the PLUTONIUM found on the LOOW site was only about 2/10ths of a mile away from the Old Fish Hatchery (getting the picture) and might have an impact on people wanting to join the "fission club" on Balmer Road. They do encourage "families and children" in their catch and release program..That you can certainly check out at:

http://niagarariveranglers.com/Wilderness%20Preserve2.htm

In fact, I encourage you to see for yourself how close people are being allowed to the CWM-LOOW Pu detect site--and PLEASE ADDRESS this with your thoughts and efforts.

Sincerely,

NL
--------------------------------------

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Mon May 30 4:41 PM, 2005
Views: 298
RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by Dovey at 19:19, 2005-06-10

----------------------------------------------------

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed Jun 1 7:11 AM, 2005
Views: 275
RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by Dovey at 19:25, 2005-06-10

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Anonymous
Date: Wed Jun 1 9:35 AM, 2005
Views: 261
RE: THE LOOW
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news to me

---------------------------------------------

alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Wed Jun 1 11:02 AM, 2005
Views: 256
RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:42, 2005-06-10

----------------------------------------

Anonymous  (Dovey)
Jun 6 1:44 PM, 2005
Views: 238
RE: THE LOOW
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Time for us to know the truth..

--------------                    

Anonymous  (Mike of the Mountain?)
 Sun Nov 13 2:02 PM, 2005
Views: 194
RE: THE LOOW
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See lack of vegetation at the high water level.. Photos Copyright 2004-2005 LR--

----------------------------

The photographs in this post are intended to distort the facts.  The first one shows signs of spring thaw,  look for the snow.  This would explain the lack of new vegetation and high water level.

-------------------------------------------

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun Nov 13 4:48 PM, 2005
Views: 186
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Distort the facts?" Like what facts? That water runs off the LOOW site? That the vegetation doesn't grow under water? That this water carries contaminants? Read the entire thread. Like 5 or 6 months ago--just now taking pot shots at what I said...what, did you just now get out of prison?

If you would have looked a little closer, you might see a big white trash bag that you think is snow--thanks anonymous.

I'm distorting the facts and signing my name. Yep, sure!

-----------------------------------------

 
Anonymous  (Dovey)
Date: Sun Nov 13 6:49 PM, 2005
Views: 178
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     I think they are doing this on the Gazette ,too,Go have a look!
 
---------------------------

Your welcome it is me. I can't post under my name any more.

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 22 7:12 PM, 2005
Views: 330
 Quote | Reply
THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Not a clue ,

-- Edited by Dovey at 22:13, 2005-05-25

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 22 8:57 PM, 2005
Views: 323
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     One for the road

-- Edited by Dovey at 22:15, 2005-05-25

 
mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 23 2:57 AM, 2005
Views: 312
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i missed something ?  again ? 

anyway no one brought up the green washing article by sean kelly, in the niagara falls gazette  , which i have not yet read as i cant open it from the archives yet ?  

    i am not thinking that getting off focus of the LOOW problem is a good thing .
 
--------------------

NuclearLou

Senior Member

Posts: 466
Date: Tue May 24 11:23 PM, 2005
Views: 296
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mike of the Mountain:

I'd like to refer you over to the other thread where the Robert Moses Parkway is being discussed with a Mr. James Hufnagel. Not so much for the power plant safety aspects, but more so for the statement that there are documents that exist, that say things are leaking upstream of the LOOW-- Lewiston-Porter Schools and Youngstown, but are not being presented for a look-see.

I guess it's ok for things to drain on down towards and past L-P. You know, gravity, the river and all. You'll see where one member of an "environmental" group is now telling me that there are EPA documents that they have withheld "That I'd cream over."

This is a wonderful situation to deal with isn't it?

Maybe you can make some sense of all this. I'm baffled why these documents were only mentioned now, as some sort of poke-in-the-eye, and never offered before. Please keep in mind that I have provided this same environemtnal group with hundreds of hours of research over the last seven or eight years. Imagine that.

Best,

Lou Ricciuti

CONTACT NIAGARA HERITAGE PARTNERSHIP at: NiagaraHeritage@aol.com

(You may want to ask for an electronic receipt if available to you.)

.

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 23:32, 2005-05-24

__________________
"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man." "He looks at you once you know he understands." I'd rather be a professional amateur like a few, rather than an Amateur Professional like the many.
alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Wed May 25 9:06 AM, 2005
Views: 288
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:39, 2005-06-10

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 9:17 AM, 2005
Views: 284
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by Dovey at 12:40, 2005-06-10

 
------------------------

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 12:24 PM, 2005
Views: 276
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

. no comment

-- Edited by Dovey at 08:13, 2005-06-11

 
alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Wed May 25 12:49 PM, 2005
Views: 273
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:40, 2005-06-10

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed May 25 12:54 PM, 2005
Views: 270
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i was told not to speak......

-- Edited by Dovey at 08:14, 2005-06-11
 
-----------------------------

Anonymous
Date: Thu May 26 7:40 PM, 2005
Views: 227
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works

Thursday, 8/24,  the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York against the federal government and Olin Corporation due to environmental contamination of the former Lake Ontario Ordnance Works (LOOW) in the Towns of Porter and Lewiston, Niagara County. 

In 1970, the  Somerset Group acquired 132 acres of LOOW property without knowledge of the contamination, and still owns 39 acres of the contaminated property. The Syms property was contaminated with radioactive waste from the Manhattan Project, as well as toxic and explosive chemicals from various defense programs conducted at LOOW, including a TNT factory, and a rocket fuel plant operated by Olin. It is less than one half mile from the Niagara Falls Storage Site (NFSS), the government storage area for radioactive waste from nuclear weapons. The plaintiffs' efforts to develop an industrial park on the site were stymied by a 1972 abatement order issued by the New York State Department of Health, prohibiting any use of the site due to radioactive contamination.

By 1992, the Government presented that the radioactive contamination had been removed from the Site to the NFSS. However, with recent reports that the NFSS is leaking, which is connected to the property via a drainage ditch, and through recent testing conducted by the Army Corps of Engineers, which discovered explosive, toxic and asbestos waste contamination on the property, plaintiffs filed the action to demand immediate remediation of their property. 

Although the Syms have cooperated with ongoing efforts of the Department of Defense to conduct an investigation of the contaminated property, the investigation has been ongoing for many years with no remediation in sight.  The government has failed to address numerous environmental concerns on the property and in the community surrounding the site and the LOOW.   "The time has come for the government to start cleaning up the property and the LOOW in order to protect this community", said John Syms. The plaintiffs seek $25 million in damages, largely arising out of their inability to use the land or conduct business on their property due to the contamination.   Their claims arise under federal and state environmental statutes, and common law theories including public nuisance. 

The plaintiffs are represented by environmental lawyers Linda Shaw and Alan Knauf from the Rochester law firm of Knauf Koegel & Shaw, LLP.  Ronald Kuis, an environmental attorney and registered professional nuclear engineer from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, has been acted as a technical expert on the case.  "The property at issue in this case should have never been sold by the government to private citizens. Given the new information being revealed about radiation levels outside of the NFSS, the Syms site, the NFSS and all of the contaminated LOOW property should be a top priority for immediate cleanup by the federal government", said attorney Linda Shaw.  A trial date has not been set.  (8/25/

 
Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 12:24 PM, 2005
Views: 215
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone mentioned is known to me. Except one that's dead...can't know me no more.

Why no dates? Three, four year old articles with several inaccuracies. Have you recent court documents?

 
Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 12:25 PM, 2005
Views: 214
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environmental News   AUGUST 2002
... Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works. Thursday,
8/24, the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed ...
www.lockport-ny.com/enviro.htm - 67k - Cached - Similar pages   August 2002

 
Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 3:48 PM, 2005
Views: 205
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the imfo. is as good as I have seen.

 
Anonymous
Date: Fri May 27 3:52 PM, 2005
Views: 203
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also: www.atomicniagara.wny.org

 
Anonymous
Date: Sat May 28 9:13 AM, 2005
Views: 187
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"Environmental News   AUGUST 2002... Olin & US Sued For Contamination In At Lake Ontario Ordnance Works. Thursday,8/24, the Somerset Group, its owner John Syms and his wife Eileen filed ...www.lockport-ny.com/enviro.htm - 67k - Cached - Similar pages   August 2002"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Eagle
Member

Posts: 5
Date: Sat May 28 12:06 PM, 2005
Views: 178
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Edited by Eagle at 15:53, 2005-06-10

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun May 29 6:35 AM, 2005
Views: 163
 Quote | Reply
RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glaciolacustrine Sediments are Weak

This is the site of two dams. Two attempts were made to build a dam on glaciolacustrine clays near Gayhurst, Quebec. Both dams collapsed when the saturated clays failed.

Lecture 1 - Introduction Images

 
mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Sun May 29 4:47 PM, 2005
Views: 152
 Quote | Reply
RE: RE: THE LOOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Eagle
"Down in a cave lives four divided area's known as the NFSS.The clay seals these,but you know that.Should always be at the top.Just incase IT comes to the top!"

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it has been shown that the clay under the various dump sites in side of the LOOW site has imperfections and also "leaks"   ,    right now one of the operaters is sucking ground water from the site and after testing the water , sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park , this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site   ,    the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer ,  ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site   .      so what ? you say ?

      because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site ,  THE CONTAMINATED GROUND WATER UNDER THE LOOW SITE can not flow outwards and infect the aquifer [in theory anyway].     any more than has already been done before the wells were installed .

               and so that the nasty stuff that has leaked already from the permeable clay layers will be absorbed in the soil between the wells and the area of contamination .    thus rendering the LOOW site to be un repairable , no amount or remediation could recover all of the contamination already dispersed throught the RADIACTIVE WASTE DUMP SITES ,  including the NFSS area .            all this a few hundered meters from the LewPort Schools ....

          if the powers that be did not believe the above statements , they had no reason to ever drill the wells and begin evacuating the ground water in the first place ..... the wells are there .                 so are the schools .....

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun May 29 7:52 PM, 2005
Views: 142
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RE: THE LOOW
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Where are these four caves? What's in them exactly? Are they open to exploring?

"sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park"

Where is JD park? James Dean park--Does it discharge at the shoreline or underwater out into the river? Is this the line that runs along south of the schools or one under the L-P schools?

"this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination"

 Company says...............

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sun May 29 8:55 PM, 2005
Views: 134
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RE: THE LOOW
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-- Edited by Dovey at 17:29, 2005-06-01

 
Anonymous
Date: Mon May 30 1:25 AM, 2005
Views: 128
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What's in the caves exactly? Is it dangerous?
 
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mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 30 2:52 AM, 2005
Views: 355
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RE: RE: THE LOOW
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quote:

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"sending it to the niagara river under the JD state park" Where is JD park?  park    Joesph Davis .

--Does it discharge at the shoreline or underwater out into the river? Is this the line that runs along south of the schools or one under the L-P schools? "this ground water is drawn from within the LOOW site but away from the areas of contamination"    i dont know the answer to the discharge location ? but i can not find even that reference , i will search til i re find it .

related   -   http://www.niagara-gazette.com/print_story.asp?id=1585  

 Company says...............  "   ?  as little as possible ....

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NuclearLou

Senior Member

Posts: 466
Date: Mon May 30 2:55 AM, 2005
Views: 354
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RE: THE LOOW
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I don't know where this information is coming from but it is a CROCK!  Sorry.

Here are pictures of two seperate creeks flowing AWAY from the US Government Manhattan Engineering District--Atomic Energy Commission, NE Chemical Warfare, 2 secret Air Force factories, Lake Ontario Ordnance Works, Niagara Falls (radiological) Storage Site and "host community" of others including commercial landfilling operations (a hazardous and a sanitary-for your living pleasure)..

Go figure. Both creeks are flowing North East toward Lake Ontario and away from the old US Government Military site. These creeks do not go into any facilitiy or pipeline and are free flowing. So much for "containment" and "treatment." Next. GET A TOPOGRAPHICAL map for $25.00 from MyTOPO.com!

MIKE OF MOUNT. says-- "areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site, the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer, ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site.   so what ? you say ? "

"because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site,"

There is absolutely nothing further from the truth and physically impossible!

Talk to a hydrologist....OR, maybe that Dr. Tim guy of R.R.G.-R.O.L.E..he knows all about those pesky local water treatments and pipes... He stated on Dialog PodCast that he was in charge of local water safety and works for local water dept.  I believe Eagle might even know him. 

See following photos-- Just a note--I don't know if I'd get my technical information from the same local newspaper accepting advertising money from companies involved at LOOW for "Family Days."  Just a thought.

Above: Looking S , water flowing N away from LOOW.

Below: Looking NE at Route 93 - my back is to LOOW Site.

See lack of vegetation at the high water level..

Photos Copyright 2004-2005 Louis Ricciuti

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:58, 2005-05-30

__________________
"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man." "He looks at you once you know he understands." I'd rather be a professional amateur like a few, rather than an Amateur Professional like the many.
mike of the mountain

Senior Member

Posts: 278
Date: Mon May 30 10:43 AM, 2005
Views: 319
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RE: RE: THE LOOW
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quote:

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Originally posted by: NuclearLou
"I don't know where this information is coming from but it is a CROCK!  Sorry. Here are pictures of two seperate creeks flowing AWAY from the US Government Manhattan Engineering District--Atomic Energy Commission, NE Chemical Warfare, 2 secret Air Force factories, Lake Ontario Ordnance Works, Niagara Falls (radiological) Storage Site and "host community" of others including commercial landfilling operations (a hazardous and a sanitary-for your living pleasure).. Go figure. Both creeks are flowing North East toward Lake Ontario and away from the old US Government Military site. These creeks do not go into any facilitiy or pipeline and are free flowing. So much for "containment" and "treatment." Next. GET A TOPOGRAPHICAL map for $25.00 from MyTOPO.com!  MIKE OF MOUNT. says-- "areas of contamination , so as the water flows from the areas of contamination it is filtered by the soil and much of the contamination stops in the soil on the LOOW site, the reason they do that is to create a "vacuum" in the local aquifer, ground water from the area surrounding the LOOW site flows INTO the LOOW site.   so what ? you say ? " "because if ground water from the surrounding area is always flowing in to the LOOW site," There is absolutely nothing further from the truth and physically impossible! Talk to a hydrologist....OR, maybe that Dr. Tim guy of R.R.G.-R.O.L.E..he knows all about those pesky local water treatments and pipes... He stated on Dialog PodCast that he was in charge of local water safety and works for local water dept.  I believe Eagle might even know him.  See following photos-- Just a note--I don't know if I'd get my technical information from the same local newspaper accepting advertising money from companies involved at LOOW for "Family Days."  Just a thought.  Above: Looking S , water flowing N away from LOOW. Below: Looking NE at Route 93 - my back is to LOOW Site. See lack of vegetation at the high water level.. Photos Copyright 2004-2005 Louis Ricciuti-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:58, 2005-05-30"

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ok ,    i can not document what i typed , i accepted the word of the person that explained it to me - without verifieing it - i was wrong to do that - therefore i retract what i typed above - i accept responsebility for my mistake - i imagine the person that explained that to me is having a good laugh about now , but still --- i was the one who did not verify the info i am at fault , i apologise - i will not repeat my error .

               Michael Webb

 
Anonymous
Date: Mon May 30 10:57 AM, 2005
Views: 316
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Mr. Webb: Your reference was a letter to the editor that appeared in the Niagara Gazette, dated Monday, February 9, 2005, page 9A, titled "Activism works only when based on facts," written by Niagara River Angler's Association past official, Mr. Michael Gillis. Remember of course, that the PLUTONIUM found on the LOOW site was only about 2/10ths of a mile away from the Old Fish Hatchery (getting the picture) and might have an impact on people wanting to join the "fission club" on Balmer Road. They do encourage "families and children" in their catch and release program..That you can certainly check out at:

http://niagarariveranglers.com/Wilderness%20Preserve2.htm

In fact, I encourage you to see for yourself how close people are being allowed to the CWM-LOOW Pu detect site--and PLEASE ADDRESS this with your thoughts and efforts.

Sincerely,
 
NL
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Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Mon May 30 4:41 PM, 2005
Views: 298
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RE: THE LOOW
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....

-- Edited by Dovey at 19:19, 2005-06-10

 
Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Wed Jun 1 7:11 AM, 2005
Views: 275
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 ......

-- Edited by Dovey at 19:25, 2005-06-10

 
Anonymous
Date: Wed Jun 1 9:35 AM, 2005
Views: 261
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news to me

 
alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Wed Jun 1 11:02 AM, 2005
Views: 256
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-- Edited by alwayswatching at 09:42, 2005-06-10

 
Anonymous
Date: Mon Jun 6 1:44 PM, 2005
Views: 238
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Time for us to know the truth..

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun Nov 13 2:02 PM, 2005
Views: 194
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See lack of vegetation at the high water level.. Photos Copyright 2004-2005 Louis Ricciuti-- Edited by NuclearLou at 04:58, 2005-05-30

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The photographs in this post are intended to distort the facts.  The first one shows signs of spring thaw,  look for the snow.  This would explain the lack of new vegetation and high water level.

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun Nov 13 4:48 PM, 2005
Views: 186
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RE: THE LOOW
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"Distort the facts?" Like what facts? That water runs off the LOOW site? That the vegetation doesn't grow under water? That this water carries contaminants? Read the entire thread. Like 5 or 6 months ago--just now taking pot shots at what I said...what, did you just now get out of prison?

If you would have looked a little closer, you might see a big white trash bag that you think is snow--thanks anonymous.

I'm distorting the facts and signing my name. Yep, sure!

 
Anonymous
Date: Sun Nov 13 6:49 PM, 2005
Views: 178
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RE: THE LOOW
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     I think they are doing this on the Gazette ,too,Go have a look!
 
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Now what the (^%)*^%&#*(&#$ is going on with THIS thread. TOO MUCH!

I wish to God I never invited you people here. I AM Sorry to all of the other Scott readers. This is simply disgusting and it all started only a little while back. How sad is this?

The article that was just posted today is from the Buffalo News. This original appeared in the Niagara Gazette on Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005, Page 1- A. I had intended to retype it, as it was not placed on the Web site for the Gazette and often I have done this. UNFORTUNATELY, in the last couple of weeks, I think everyone can see what has been going on and the article was not retyped.

The Buffalo News just printed this today and someone posted it without comment. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE this newspaper article with any seriousness. While I am glad that they didn't go through with this new hair-brained idea, the entire playing field is "littered" with the past. I was actually stunned that this was even being considered when I first read about it (29 Nov.).    

DO NOT THINK FOR ONE MINUTE that the politicians mentioned, or any department or official are acting the way they appear behind the scenes or for our good. Let's just call this P.R. right now, P.R. Pergatory Penance.  Lee Simonson is on his way out (wonder why??) and was instrumental in getting us into the situation in the first place that we are today. Bill Ross the same. Listen to the PodCasts and know that I've known BR for more than thiry years. He is not concerned about this situation other than misguiding the PR and without any real remedy. If you don't believe me, wait and see. It'll be a long wait I can imagine. Where were Bill and Lee when the federal government, via the Administration, quietly reclassified the waste in Lewiston and YOU NEVER HEARD a word except here and from me last year?  :)  Nope, not a PEEP on THAT subject. No news either.

Sorry that I did't get the chance to retype the article. If you'll notice, the Niagara Gazette has zero LOOW articles in its archive and is not posting the most important daily stories online. I have asked the reporters why this is happening and they don't seem to know.

IF this is important to you, I encourage you to write an email to the newspaper management requesting that these important articles be placed on line on a daily basis. They'll say that they don't have the space. You should say that they need to make the space for what may be the biggest environmental disaster yet, in any event, important to all of us.

WRITE THAT EMAIL  http://www.niagara-gazette.com/contactus  RIGHT NOW.

Best,  NuclearLou

starlight wrote:

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Anonymous wrote: TOWN OF LEWISTONBoard rescinds vote affecting waste firmBy NANCY A. FISCHER NEWS NIAGARA BUREAU12/13/2005 LEWISTON - The Town Board members Monday rescinded its vote of two weeks ago that potentially could have led to the expansion of Chemical Waste Management, the only hazardous waste dump in the Northeast. The board had agreed to complete a study that could allow the Lewiston-Porter Water Pollution Control Center to receive a permit to treat specialized waste, including waste from hospitals and leachate from Chemical Waste Management. The board received a letter from County Legislators Lee Simonson and Clyde Burmaster and Legislature Chairman William Ross that warned any study that could lead to accepting CWM waste was "ill-advised." "CWM discharges millions of gallons of waste water into the Niagara River each year from its own pretreatment plant. The company proposes to send this waste water to Lewiston's plant, requiring Lewiston to expand its capabilities. The result would, in effect, assist CWM in adding a new hazardous waste landfill," the letter said. Councilman Michael Johnson called for rescinding the earlier action. Councilman Daniel Kilmer agreed but said he was "appalled at the county getting involved." "I'm against it. It's blood money," said Councilman John Ceretto of the $100,000 the plant could receive annually to treat the leachate from CWM. Supervisor Fred Newlin said the treated water going through the Lewiston sewage plant and into the river could expose the town to future liability if anything is ever found in the water. However, Councilman D. James Langlois, the only board member to vote to go ahead with the study, called the vote to rescind caving in to "political pressure." "Why are you so afraid to complete a study? It's very necessary to have this permit in place to accept streams from hospitals and dental offices," Langlois said. Newlin countered, "No one has approached us about a pretreatment program, except CWM." In another matter, the board tabled a plan to sell 11 acres of town parkland on Creek Road to developer Michael Dowd and Old Creek Links for use as a golf course. The $147,000 sale to Dowd was tabled because he was not present to answer questions.               NOW DID WE FORGET THIS:    BUFFALO NEWS Thank you Anonymous I didn't see this.

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