Fish Kill

Date: Wed Jun 15 8:20 PM, 2005

RE: Fish Kill

shughes · Senior Member

Sorry you are correct, I didn't read that in the article. Where I saw that statement was on high beam research.

You keep saying you are trying to calm my fears, where did that come from? No fear here,I don't live anywhere near these waterways. I don't like the way the whole thing was handled. State officals did not take any tests for several days. What they did was find a theory and made it work. What I think they should have done is rule out all possibilities first. That was not done here, that is never done here. From the first statement the DEC decided this had to be it. No tests were taken, they didn't plan on doing so period. Then they start getting some flack from the public and take tests 4 days later (CYA). If you know as much as you claim to you should also know these tests are useless. That's my beef, do the job right in the first place. That way it can't be said that they have not done everything possible. The general public has very little trust for these agencies and this is why. So you can defend the DEC until the cows come home, it doesn't change the way things were handled.

-- Edited by shughes at 18:52, 2005-06-20

Date: Wed Jun 15 9:04 PM, 2005

ohhh... my mistake. I was discussing the facts and circumstances of this one particular event. If I had realized that you just wanted to work an agenda against the DEC I wouldn't have bothered getting in your way.

---NotDEC

dontlookhere · Veteran Member

It looks like this post applies here as well. This was cut and pasted from lists. I think the point that was being made was these agencies don't do much to help themselves. I'm sure I will hear how wrong I am in short order.

The following is an excerpt from a Buffalo News article about the publics perception of environmental concerns in Niagara County. I can't find a date for the article.

Special Report to the Buffalo News

"It seems that our community leaders have been quicker to accept the findings of EPA and DEC than has the general public. This suggests, however, that our community, state and national leaders have some work to do to convince skeptical residents of Niagara County that the worst is behind them. Public suspicions of statements by political leaders, perhaps all too fresh in the public mind post-Love Canal, may pose a significant challenge to overcome in the coming years. Furthermore, if another significant environmental disaster were unearthed in the County, a frail public confidence could be quickly undermined resulting in a larger gap in opinion between the public and their leaders than currently exists."

Date: Wed Jun 15 11:21 PM, 2005

Firstly, thank you to NotDEC, for defending the logical position while I was tending to more important matters. It was like you read my mind.

This is really much ado about nothing. People are complaining because the water is black instead of green and they assume it's contaminated with something. Well, they're right--sediment. People need to watch less X-Files and more Discovery channel. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it's not natural.

I noticed one story where an official said [in big, bold letters] "I've never seen anything like it." I'll bet the state troopers in Albany are saying the same thing about the mudslide that destroyed a portion of Highway 87. Does that mean it's a government conspiracy? Lighten up people...

DEC

shughes · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Firstly, thank you to NotDEC, for defending the logical position while I was tending to more important matters. It was like you read my mind. This is really much ado about nothing. People are complaining because the water is black instead of green and they assume it's contaminated with something. Well, they're right--sediment. People need to watch less X-Files and more Discovery channel. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it's not natural. I noticed one story where an official said [in big, bold letters] "I've never seen anything like it." I'll bet the state troopers in Albany are saying the same thing about the mudslide that destroyed a portion of Highway 87. Does that mean it's a government conspiracy? Lighten up people... DEC

Good morning Anonymus DEC Employee. I would love to state that this was much ado about nothing. Unfortunately I'm a show me kind of poster. Show me what tests were taken and when. Thats what I asked you before your bouncer got involved. I'm not even going to ask you about the complaints of black water. You comment about the state troopers and mud slides has nothing to do with this, just a distraction. Here are my questions again.

Where are the tests on the water and fish, and what were they tested for?

What was the water temp at the time of first response?

What was the oxygen level in the water at time of first response?

What is the temp of the water today? What is the oxygen level today?

Show me that these tests were done and I will not post on the subject again. But I won't stop posting simply because the anonymous posted wants me to. Please no spin just the test results.

Date: Thu Jun 16 7:46 AM, 2005

I am not directly involved with that type of investigation, nor do I have access to that information, so you'll have to call the office directly.

I didn't mention the mudslide as a distraction, it's a naturallly occuring phenomenon that caused far more damage than a fish kill. Why aren't you asking us to test the mud? What makes you so suspicious of some dead fish? If it was chemical dumping, wouldn't there be other evidence besides dead fish, like dead plants or trees, dead animals on the bank, strange smells, orange foam, etc. Post all you want. I don't offer spin, and I don't answer questions I don't know the answer to either.

DEC

shughes · Senior Member

So if you are not directly involved and don't have access, this is strictly you own oppinion correct? In that case you should have left your employer out of this. Who should I contact and what are the office hours?

Date: Thu Jun 16 9:22 AM, 2005

It sounds like Mr. or Miss DEC was merely offering his/her professional opinon about a topic in his/her field. Another agency could have jurisdiction, or another person at the DEC might be handling the issue, in which case, it would be innappropriate for DEC to pass themselves off as the official spokesperson. In any case, I think you've been very rude to someone who was simply trying to enlighten the rest of us. Your iron-fisted crusade for answers in this trivial matter can probably be found at http://www.dec.state.ny.us/index.html

Phantom

Foreverstarthereisaangel · Novice

All in due,I ,that is me,Would think there would be at least one dead animal.As for they do go for water.I agree with DEC person make a phone call.

Date: Sat Jun 18 5:18 AM, 2005

(June 17, 2005) - - Just last week, News 4 told you about thousands of dead fish discovered in Ellicott Creek. The DEC is investigating a similar case in the Southern Tier. News 4's Ellen Maxwell has more.

It's an unbelieveable site.

At least a thousand 20 to 30 pound carp have died and washed up on the shores of Chautauqua Lake this week.

DEC Fisheries Manager Paul McKeoun said, "It started occurring about 3-4 days ago. There's been a massive carp die off, pretty much all over the lake."

DEC officials sent some of the fish to a lab at Cornell for testing. They had a similar situation last year, and it turned out the fish were being affected by what's called the coi herpes virus.

They say the virus is specific to one breed of fish, and can not be transmitted to other types of fish or humans.

CLA General Manager Paul Swanson said, "The virus again can't be transmitted to humans. It's more an asthetic situation. We have large numbes of big carp that smell and are rotting."

Paul McKeoun said, "You can tell from the stench off of the trucks where the fish are right now. You won't even be able to be outside. It's that bad."

Aside from the unpleasant smell, DEC officials don't believe the dead fish pose a health hazard to humans.

Paul Swanson said, "The fish would be obviously sick. So it's unlikely you're gonna hook into any of these fish anyway, but if a fish is looking sickly, let the fish go."

Paul McKeoun said, "We're gonna be involved in this for a good two weeks cleaning this up. Anything anybody can do to help, we're willing to listen."

Clean-up crews are advising any residents who find dead fish on the shore to wear gloves when picking them up, and then to bury the fish

shughes · Senior Member

shughes wrote:

So if you are not directly involved and don't have access, this is strictly you own oppinion correct? In that case you should have left your employer out of this. Who should I contact and what are the office hours?

Thank you anonymous. I'm still waiting for a response mr anonymous DEC employee.

-- Edited by shughes at 18:41, 2005-06-18

Date: Sat Jun 18 10:09 AM, 2005

shughes wrote:

shughes wrote:
So if you are not directly involved and don't have access, this is strictly you own oppinion correct? In that case you should have left your employer out of this. Who should I contact and what are the office hours?
Thank you anonymous. I'm still waiting for a response me anonymous DDEC employee.

By what stretch of logic do you think you are ENTITLED to any answers from any agency on this forum? As everyone has told you, pick up the bloody phone and call the DEC.

But, as you won't do that, it is obvious that the truth about this event, in a body of water that you admitted not living anywhere near, is not the issue for you. This is all about bashing this agency. This grandstanding is petty and illogical. If you were really concerned about this you would quit the whining here and make at least a minimal effort to go get some answers where they really exist. But perhaps it is just more to the point of your cause to make noise, but accomplish nothing.

The incident quoted above, where there actually WAS a question as to what was happening only PROVES that the DEC looked into it, admitted what they found in testing and issued the results to the public.

--NotDEC

P.S. By the way, Anonymous Shughes... I am not a "bouncer" for the DEC - only someone that understands the issues in this one case, is capable of simple logic, and recognizes bad timing in pushing an agenda. Learn that 2+2=4 and stop trying to make 2+2=22.

shughes · Senior Member

shughes wrote:

So if you are not directly involved and don't have access, this is strictly you own oppinion correct? In that case you should have left your employer out of this. Who should I contact and what are the office hours?

"I am not directly involved with that type of investigation, nor do I have access to that information, so you'll have to call the office directly."

Anonymous DEC employee,

If you could find the time please answer my above post. I will be more than happy to place that call. I don't have time to be transferred from department to department until I get to speak with whom ever is in the know. I would assume that you know whom I should contact and the hours that I should call. I have to assume you want me to become somewhat educated about this issue, as you responded to my post. And as you can read in the thread, some posters do not want this dialog continued. Your quick response would solve several issues. Thank you for your assistance.

Date: Sat Jun 18 6:01 PM, 2005

You obviously can't care too much about an issue if you can't even be bothered to spend a little time making a call to a public agency. You would rather turn it into some kind of Holy Grail quest that others should drop everything to assist you with.

If you are ever convinced there is some sort of dark conspiracy that needs exposing, and you honestly care enough to follow through, pull up your sleeves and do something about it. Get to the bottom of it. Make the calls and then come back and educate us on your findings. You have the right to do whatever you feel is necessary.

Others have the right to share information and facts that you are apparently unprepared or incapable of fathoming. Just stop thinking everyone else is against you for conspiratorial reasons.

Date: Sat Jun 18 6:07 PM, 2005

P.S. It is hard to believe that you could be the same individual that posted this very salient piece of wisdom.

"Rather that come back accusing a poster of foul play, perhaps you should take the time to concider what is in front of you. If you look for evil, you will find it. Try looking for reason, you might suprise your self."

shughes · Senior Member

I have to ask why you felt the need to enter this thread. Why do you care what I think, you don’t know me. You have absolutely no clue what I do with my time or what I accomplish. If you want to see this thread go away, stop responding. DEC employee can private message me. You have taken my questions as an outright attack on the anonymous poster. Are we only allowed to question what you deem worthy? Show yourself so we can follow your posts. It so happens that I do have more knowledge than the average Joe. Does that make me a authority, not by a long shot. Does that make me able to ask questions that some people would not think of, yes. If you don’t like my questions don’t read my posts. Anonymous DEC posted what looked like text book answers, without posting any of the qualifying formulas. He chose to enter the discussion as a DEC employee, no one forced him. When he identified him self as a state employee he opened the door to questions. I did nothing more that ask more questions, you however have been a bit harsh. In an earlier post you said this is not the time to push my agenda. If you would be so kind, please tell my what you think that is. You seem to be the one with the issues here. Again I will ask, what’s wrong with asking questions? I was under the impression that was the purpose of this site.

Scott Leffler · Guru

I want to clear a couple things up ....

shughes wrote:

DEC employee can private message me. You have taken my questions as an outright attack on the anonymous poster.

Again I will ask, whatï¿½s wrong with asking questions? I was under the impression that was the purpose of this site.

Only those with sign ins can private message one another, so AnDEC couldn't private message you.

And you're right - asking questions is a large part of the purpose of this site.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

now for some irrellevent trivia ,

there is a town in newyork named Fishkill , zipcode 12524 and one town to the east , you guessed it East Fishkill , no zip, too small. "kill" translates to creek in dutch , this area was settled by some Dutch . hence the "kill" in some local town names . like Peekskill. PETA tried and failed a few years back to have the name Fishkill changed to something more "freindly to animals" .

shughes · Senior Member

Thats cool Mike, I wouldn't have guessed Dutch. Given the nams of the surrounding towns and road I would have thought it was named by Indians. My Indian name is redshoe.

Mindcrime · Guru

shughes wrote:

...Anonymous DEC posted what looked like text book answers, without posting any of the qualifying formulas. He chose to enter the discussion as a DEC employee, no one forced him. When he identified him self as a state employee he opened the door to questions. I did nothing more that ask more questions, you however have been a bit harsh. In an earlier post you said this is not the time to push my agenda. If you would be so kind, please tell my what you think that is. You seem to be the one with the issues here...

Sorry, you attacked DEC. Period. It appears you were demanding high-level information from a private, 2nd class. If someone tells you they can't answer your question, why must you badger them continually? Do you want them to make up an answer so you'll leave them alone? Make a frigging phone call.

jspeer · Guru

I think SHughes wants his answers to be documented. I agree post the answers on line if you have them. If not, knock on the persons office door that has them and tell them to post...or can't you because your posting instead of working?

Paper Tigress · Veteran Member

It just seems rude to pester someone who is obviously a first-time poster to this board. This person never claimed to be an authority, he offered some insight, and some of us treated him like spanish inquisitors.

Mindcrime · Guru

NOOOOOOOO one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!! ...sorry...

shughes · Senior Member

You know what guys, your reading way to much into things. If not-DEC had not posted no one would have thought anything of this thread.

I did not attack anonymous dec employee, I attacked not-dec, read it again. Not-dec got all bent out of shape about a conversation they were a 3rd party to. Would I attack non-dec again? You bet, for an anonymous poster they sure have a brass set.

I asked questions and then for further clarification. I did not identify myself as a state employee, posting on work time by the way. If a poster, new or not, posts on a thread they need to deal with the fallout just like the rest of us. What makes you think this poster isn’t already a member, but signed as anonymous to protect their own butt? Back off and get over it.

JS thanks for trying to clear things up.

-- Edited by shughes at 19:13, 2005-06-20