Gary M. Hayes for Niagara County Sheriff

Date: Mon Jul 11 6:12 PM, 2005

RE: Gary M. Hayes for Niagara County Sheriff

Date: Mon Jul 11 6:16 PM, 2005

More patronage...
Buffalo News
February 27, 2003

LOCKPORT -- Niagara County Sheriff Thomas A. Beilein Wednesday said he has recommended that Deputy Patrick J. Needle be named to the $39,000-a-year post of Stop-DWI coordinator.

dontlookhere · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

Not a crusade - an election. The cost of insurance has to be enormous for the Mounted patrol. What if: 1. a deputy falls off the horse 2. the horse rears or bolts or kicks somebody It's true a lot of people like the pretty horsies, but it's just one more extravagance that pushes us closer to a control board.

Bring in the adult supervision.

kspeer · Senior Member

"It's true a lot of people like the pretty horsies, but it's just one more extravagance that pushes us closer to a control board."

How is it an extravagance to have armed deputies high above crowds on fast well trained horses? Are you aware that they are fully trained and armed? They go through all the same schooling as any other deputy.

kspeer · Senior Member

From the mounted division's website:

The Mounted Division is a function of the Niagara County Sheriff's Department appointed by the Sheriff to police the county for special assignments. This volunteer group, approved by the Division for membership, must be qualified for Mounted Police work.

Regular training of the division is essential during the entire year to develop techniques in the handling of strikes, riots, emergencies, mounted police patrol, and rendering assistance to the regular Sheriff's Deputies.

There is no monetary compensation to the mounted patrol. All equipment such as horses, transporting horses and track, are furnished by the individual Special Deputy. At the present time there are thirteen members, with an ultimate goal of twenty five.

The selection of a horse for this specific type of assignment requires that the animal be docile and well mannered to maneuver in crowds, as well as trained to perform the duties assigned to the Deputy.

There is no particular breed of horse most suited for police work other than the diligent training that is given the animal during the regular season.

Date: Tue Jul 12 11:15 AM, 2005

kspeer wrote:

All equipment such as horses, transporting horses and track, are furnished by the individual Special Deputy.

The official web site which is quoted, contradicts the newspaper story regarding the Department supplying "track" I think they mean "tack".

"At the present time there are thirteen members, with an ultimate goal of twenty five."

If mounted deputies are such a great idea, why don't they pay them? Why just volunteers? I bet they'd come up with plenty of volunteers to cruise around in a police car. Think of the fun you could have!

"The selection of a horse for this specific type of assignment requires that the animal be docile and well mannered to maneuver in crowds, as well as trained to perform the duties assigned to the Deputy."

Once again, animals are unpredictable. You never know what can spook an animal. A dog can be the most gentle and good natured animal until some kid tries to pet it while it's eating, and then it becomes instantly vicious. Circus elephants who have been in captivity for 20 years all of a sudden go bonkers. Horses can be startled, and when you have an animal of that size in a crowd, it's a calculated risk.

Frankly, I don't think it's that big a risk to rule out mounted police. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what you or I think, it matters what the insurance company thinks, and they charge a high premium to cover this particular police activity.

I like horses, I used to work with harness ponies and I once lived next to Belmont and loved it. Just so you know I have nothing against horses or animals, just pr projects at taxpayer expense.

shughes · Senior Member

Does anyone know what the insurance costs? It is hard to say this is not worth the cost if we don't know the cost. Is any sort of fee charged when the mounted division is used to cover a specific event?

Date: Tue Jul 12 11:53 AM, 2005

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, animals are unpredictable. You never know what can spook an animal. A dog can be the most gentle and good natured animal until some kid tries to pet it while it's eating, and then it becomes instantly vicious. Circus elephants who have been in captivity for 20 years all of a sudden go bonkers. Horses can be startled, and when you have an animal of that size in a crowd, it's a calculated risk.

True, animals can be unpredictable. This is not a reason to exclude them from law enforcement or any other activity. I've seen police dogs so well trained that you could fire a machine gun over their heads and they will maintain eye contact with a specific individual as well as obey commands in an instant, without hesitation. Circus elephants usually go bonkers because circus training methods are cruel and inhumane. It's usually a result of continual abuse.

People are more unpredictable than any horse, especially criminals. What happens when a criminal leaves the paved road where your cruisers cannot follow? A mounted officer could easily run down a criminal on foot, or even one on an ATV through dense brush or dirt trails. Mounted police offer a unique display of power and authority in a crowd, even an unruly one. That's why cavalry was so effective in medieval combat. You have the advantages of height, strength, speed and can not only see, but react more easily to changes or suspects in that crowd. You would be hard-pressed to find a case where a trained police horse 'went bonkers' and and hurt an innocent person.

Phantom

kspeer · Senior Member

The official web site which is quoted, contradicts the newspaper story regarding the Department supplying "track" I think they mean "tack". -by anon

I just cut and pasted that. I'm not responsible for their typos.

I will try to find a precedent of a mounted division accident and the insurance cost to post.

alwayswatching · Veteran Member

What do they have againts the horses?

kspeer · Senior Member

This is from 2002:

KSL.Com > 2002 Olympic Coverage > News Stories

Mounted Police Get Practice
The concept of using police officers on horses is something Utah hasn't seen in decades. But it's becoming a familiar sight at large events in the state, in preparation for the Olympics.

(Oct. 6, 2001)------Mixed in the crowd of the thousands of fans at Friday night's BYU- Utah State game, were 14 Highway Patrol troopers. The officers weren't in their police cruisers, but were patrolling the stadium on horseback.

Bob Friel/Football Fan: "I KNOW THEY USE THEM IN A LOT OF BIG CITIES AND IT'S GOOD TO SEE THEM HERE, REALLY."

The Highway Patrol recently formed a mounted horse patrol. While it's primary assignment will be crowd control during the Olympics, troopers are getting practice this fall at BYU and Utah football games. Troopers believe the mounted patrol offers a stronger presence and allows them to stand out in large crowds.

Lt. Ken Peay/Utah Highway Patrol: "ON HORSEBACK I'M 10 FEET TALL, I CAN SEE OVER THE CROWD, I CAN SEE INTO THE CROWD, AND PEOPLE-- IF THEY NEED AN OFFICER-- CAN SEE ME."

Lt. Ken Peay/Utah Highway Patrol: "I CAN GET THROUGH A CROWD, IF SOMEONE NEEDS HELP QUICKLY. I CAN GET THEIR PROBABLY QUICKER THAN AN OFFICER ON FOOT."

Sam Penrod/Eyewitness News: "TROOPERS SAY THEY ARE GETTING GREAT EXPERIENCE IN THIS CROWD EXERCISE, AND SAY IT'S ALSO GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR THE HORSES."

Lt. Ken Peay/Utah Highway Patrol: "WE'RE GETTING THEM USE TO ALL SORTS OF NOISES, ALL SORTS OF MOTION, FLAGS, BANNERS, BANDS."

Date: Tue Jul 12 9:34 PM, 2005

Horses?? Does anyone want to address a real topic??

Date: Tue Jul 12 10:13 PM, 2005

kspeer wrote:

The official web site which is quoted, contradicts the newspaper story regarding the Department supplying "track" I think they mean "tack". -by anon I just cut and pasted that. I'm not responsible for their typos. I will try to find a precedent of a mounted division accident and the insurance cost to post.

Ms. Speer,

You are a seeker of the truth and I appreciate that. One advantage of the mounted division is that young people get to pet the horse and listen to it snort, and see the proud deputy atop, and I think they get a measure of respect for law enforcement from the experience.

I realize you're not responsible for the typo.

Please continue posting your measured and wise comments on this thread.

And vote for Gary Hayes in September.

shughes · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Horses?? Does anyone want to address a real topic??

You know anon, any issue that uses taxpayer funds is real. By asking the question and getting input we can only learn. Is that a bad thing? The more issues that get raised and explained, the better prepared we are come election day. As long as they are honest questions, what's the harm? Has anyone found out what the insurance actually costs?

Date: Wed Jul 13 9:02 PM, 2005

shughes wrote:

As long as they are honest questions, what's the harm? Has anyone found out what the insurance actually costs?

Good points, shughes. We can certainly FOIA the Sheriff Dept. to find out how much insurance costs for the mounted patrol. We can see if Tom Beilein's Dept. responds within the number of days specified by law. Should be good for the entertainment value.

Speaking of entertainment value, you're soon to see some documents on Scottleffler.com that will knock your socks off, regarding monies paid out by Beilein to settle lawsuits brought not only by citizens, but by some of his own deputies. For tonight, let's just say that future Democratic Gov. Eliot Spitzer is going to think twice before taking on *this* kind of baggage.

Stay tuned.