Fox news neocon happy about London attack ...

Date: Sun Jul 24 1:50 PM, 2005

RE: Fox news neocon happy about London attack ...

Date: Sun Jul 24 2:06 PM, 2005

Anonymous wrote:

Shoes: MotM and another were INVITED to come here and help with American children's lives. Specifically, the lives of children around Lew-Port and Niagara Ounty in general, of which these people expressed a great concern and interest--at the time. Count the number of posts and topics from them. You will see that there has been nothing BUT bigotry and distraction, misinterrpretation and attacks. Each were asked to watch and participate and specifically asked to not make political or religeous commentary. BUT here we are. I for one am disappointed at what was commented upon. Oh, and I don't care if this is recognizable. I'll sign the next one if need be. Rest assured, it won't be this nice though.

Oh go ahead..

Date: Sun Jul 24 2:12 PM, 2005

Put your name up and then LET'S GO! I'll put this to rest. BRING IT ON since you think you know so much and are the ONLY righteous person. LET'S GO!! Sounds like time for a spanking! BringitOn.

shughes · Senior Member

I think I was pretty clear in my opinion of motm and his tantrums. I am in total disbelief that someone from out of the area can be so sure of who we all are. Not just sure, but condescendingly sure that we are all hypocrites. Where does this guy get off? I have said it in post earlier on this thread, but I’ll say it again. I don’t want him anywhere near the children on my watch. You can be sure that I won’t be posting any info regarding them here. Redshoe

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:
. Oh, and I don't care if this is recognizable. I'll sign the next one if need be. Rest assured, it won't be this nice though.

???? there were no intentional lies . ???? ever .

why on earth would you be hiding in the first place ? a moot point .

i cant not see any benefit to any one here from my interactions with this group any more, nothing good or constructive - this is not what i thought it was , my mistake . i have learned much , not all of it good . no recriminations , no zingers .

Date: Mon Jul 25 5:45 AM, 2005

If you live on the other side of the state, what's the purpose of landing on a Niagara County Web site and then talking global politics? Don't see the logic.

Date: Mon Jul 25 6:03 AM, 2005

No recriminations? What's this then?

> "i have learned much , not all of it good." <

So, let me get this straight--you joined this board, started all kind of hoopla about Iraq, Iran, everybody and their brother that you don't like and want to make mince meat out of and char till well done, we were called pacifists, liberals and a number of other generalized names appropriate to categorization class (just prior to interrment camp) and you tell us that you've "learned much," but "not all of it good," and then say that there are no recriminations. That's just flat out Double-Talk, or worse, a backhanded slap in the face. LEARN THIS--You have poor people skills that you need to soften and then to keep some opinion to yourself if you want anyone's concern, care or respect. LEARN THIS TOO--we're sorry for your being hurt, maimed, nearly killed, but WE didn't lob no grenade or mortar at you. WE didn't cause your pain and don't think that every person with a certain skin color or language dialect should be killed. Since we can't apply the skin or language rule, maybe Peace is a better alternative. Unless, of course, that is you want to label and categorize further. The way to Peace is through Peace. You don't teach your kids to be well adjusted and non-violent by slapping your wife around in front of them.

Date: Mon Jul 25 6:21 AM, 2005

Here's the "moot point" of hiding as you call it--I don't see it as hiding, I call it an absolute embarrassment that certain posts have been made around this board and on certain threads, I don't wish to be associated with that sort of thing and not unlike war, am just keeping my head down and my voice loud. You may also wish to ask why others have chosen to post anonymouse-ly, including yourself.

Oh, and another thing MotM: WHY wouldn't you have started off your last post with an apology to shughes? You obviously offended her to a degree that her demeanor has changed toward you. Is this an example of "white woman #2," or "white wife #1," or whatever such nonsense there was a little while ago? shughes is a woman from what can be seen of her postings, AND, I think she's involved with schools. Maybe even your old school. Imagine that!

Don't go away mad, or even go away. Take your lumps and learn that we don't all like the same things and that we should therefore focus on things that are shared. Even if that is only the common air we share on the planet, the water that accumulates on a leaf, or the exhilerating feeling of being near a group of children laughing. How's that for global? War does not always "have to be coming." Focusing on differences is what gets us to these dark places so readily. Globally. Always has but doesn't always have to.

shughes · Senior Member

"Oh, and another thing MotM: WHY wouldn't you have started off your last post with an apology to shughes? You obviously offended her to a degree that her demeanor has changed toward you. Is this an example of "white woman #2," or "white wife #1," or whatever such nonsense there was a little while ago? shughes is a woman from what can be seen of her postings, AND, I think she's involved with schools. Maybe even your old school. Imagine that!"

Thank you Anon, but I don't want an apology. I don't think offended is the right term for this one, but it's close enough. You are correct about me being involved with schools. And yes LP is one of them. Just because I don't post most of the info I have, doesn't mean I am not aware of the issues. There is a time and a place to discuss certain issues. This is not the time, talking prematurely without complete knowledge could harm years of work. I am not willing to do that. If you constantly cry foul, you become just another squeaky wheel that does not get greased. Again there is a time and a place, right now this is not either. One more thing: All of the hours of work on all these schools is volunteer, I think hypocrite was way over the top.

-- Edited by shughes at 10:11, 2005-07-25

Date: Mon Jul 25 8:45 AM, 2005

Anonymous wrote:

Focusing on differences is what gets us to these dark places so readily. Globally. Always has but doesn't always have to.

Unfortunately, MOTM has been spoon-fed all this jingoistic nonsene for years, and believes it to be true because his point of view is hopelessly skewed. But keep in mind, this isn't a new trend. This is how the ruling class (i.e. Bushies) operates in any society, they keep the middle & lower classes fighting amongst themselves so they won't notice how badly they're being screwed by the Upper One Percent. Fairly simple system, happens to work. You know anything different, that's what they're gonna talk about. Race, religion, jobs, income, environment, social security, gay rights, tax relief, etc. They want to keep you squabbling and bickering and fighting with each other, so that they can keep going to the bank. MOTM is just a cog in an ancient, well-maintained machine.

We need to focus on our strengths and common ideals in order to succeed.

Phantom

Date: Mon Jul 25 8:15 PM, 2005

Phantom wrote:

We need to focus on our strengths and common ideals in order to succeed.

So true, Phantom. I am realising that I cant really pick and choose my freedom fighters (PLO) and my terrorists (Al Quaeda), because whatever their cause, the methods remain the same, and those methods mean the deaths of innocent people.

And as for the war on terror, what a stupid [censored] idea that is. all it has proved is that however powerful your weapons are, you cannot beat religious fervour or human determination. "A single peasant defending his homeland is worth 10 hired soldiers." - Robin of Locksley

shughes · Senior Member

This was in todays Buffalo News.

Muslim chaplain decries terror attacks
By JAY TOKASZ
News Staff Reporter
7/25/2005

Wearing a kufi on his head and a flowing linen shirt and pants, instead of his usual crisp Army uniform, Maj. Abdul-Rasheed Muhammad launched into a condemnation of the London bombings and other deadly attacks by terrorists claiming to act on faith.

"Who gave them the authority to randomly kill human beings, supposedly in the name of Islam?" Muhammad preached during a recent service inside Masjid Nu'Man, the mosque at Fillmore and Box avenues.

Muhammad, a Buffalo native and graduate of Lafayette High School, became the nation's first Muslim military chaplain in 1993.

Muhammad's appointment opened the door for 11 other Muslim chaplains in the Army, Navy and Air Force, and his distinction as the first remains a point of pride in the local African-American Muslim community.

He also has been a frequent subject of media interviews, with the approval of his Army superiors, including a recent Memorial Day feature story on National Public Radio.

Muhammad's success "cuts through the myth that as an African-American and as a Muslim, you can't rise through the ranks and you can't be effective," said Zaid Islam, a congregant at Masjid Nu'Man.

Muhammad said the military needs more Muslim chaplains.

But the Islamic chaplaincy program is under increased scrutiny since 9/11 and several incidents involving prison and military chaplains.

Following the 9/11 attacks, a Muslim chaplain at Albion Correctional Facility reportedly told inmates that Osama bin Laden was a hero to all Muslims. Another chaplain at Cape Vincent was quoted as praising the 9/11 attackers.

In 2003, Capt. James J. Yee, who served as a Muslim chaplain at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was accused of mishandling classified material. The charges were later dropped - and Yee honorably discharged - but they fueled further skepticism.

Those arrests didn't affect Muhammad. But another did. Muslim activist Abduraham Alamoudi was arrested in 2003, accused of illegally dealing with nations and organizations that have ties to terrorism. After a plea deal, he was sentenced last fall to 23 years in jail.

Alamoudi was one of the main reasons Muhammad was able to become an Army chaplain. He was the chief architect of the Muslim chaplaincy certification program that the Pentagon uses to find chaplains and was on hand for Muhammad's installation ceremony in 1993.

Muhammad acknowledged that Alamoudi was his endorser, but the case against Alamoudi shouldn't reflect negatively on Muslim military chaplains - none of whom hold extreme views, he said.

"I was very shocked to hear that these accusations were associated with him," said Muhammad, adding that Alamoudi was instrumental in helping many American Muslim military personnel make hajj - the religious pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

Muhammad, 52, was deployed for a year in Taji, Iraq, where he came in regular contact with Iraqis, many of whom were stunned to learn that an American soldier was a fellow Muslim, he said. He was back in Buffalo earlier this month before being redeployed to Germany.

Despite criticism from some Muslims regarding his military service, Muhammad feels no contradiction, no tug of loyalties between religion and country.

"I see the two as being inseparable," he said. "I didn't make the choice to be American, I was born here. God had something to do with that."

He also has support from Muslims who view his service as an example of how Islam fits well with American-style democracy.

"Our religion has no conflict with the government," said Zaid Islam. "Once you're a soldier, you understand what you're there for. You're there to protect the freedoms and rights of Americans. Our religion has no problems with that."

Born Myron Maxwell into a family of Baptists who lived in the Commodore Perry municipal housing complex, Muhammad said he was heavily influenced as a teenager and young man by Malcolm X, the former Nation of Islam minister who was assassinated in 1965.

Muhammad changed his name when he joined the Nation of Islam in 1973, and he gravitated toward mainstream Islam shortly afterward.

After graduating from Brockport State College, he moved to California, where he worked in juvenile probation and served as an assistant imam at a San Diego mosque.

He enlisted in the Army from 1982 to 1985 as a behavioral sciences specialist. After his discharge, he worked as an assistant imam in the Muslim communities of Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti, Mich.

In 1990, he returned to Western New York to serve as a Muslim prison chaplain at two state facilities in Albion.

He waited several years on his application to become an Army military chaplain.

He has served at Fort Bragg, N.C.; in Korea; at Fort Lewis in Pierce County, Wash.; and at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

The Pentagon opened the chaplaincy to Muslims to reflect the growing diversity of its soldiers. An estimated 4,000 Muslims now serve in the military, up from 1,300 in 1993.

But some members of Congress, including Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., have expressed concern that extremist Muslims could be infiltrating the armed forces, as well as the federal and military prison systems, through chaplaincy programs.

Schumer helped organize Senate hearings in October 2003 on the topic. The issue has received little attention since then, but some terrorism experts say risks remain.

Muhammad said he wishes he would have been invited to testify at the Senate hearings, and he hopes to work in the future on strengthening the endorsing body that the Pentagon uses in finding Muslim chaplains.

Beyond that, Muhammad said he would continue to support fully the war on terrorism.

In his sermon to more than 55 congregants at Masjid Nu'Man, Muhammad expressed views that were decidely anti-terrorist - in contrast to some of the opinions expressed by chaplains shortly after 9/11.

"When a man decides to strap a bomb on himself because someone told him so, then that person has not properly researched his religion," Muhammad said.
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