Wyndham Lawn

MBrophy · Veteran Member

Wyndham Lawn

shughes · Senior Member

You know, that's a really good question. Last I remember the residents had stopped that from happening, but that was over a year ago.

Date: Fri Sep 9 6:30 AM, 2005

The public outcry convinced the management from Wyndham Lawn to withdraw their application for the sex offender program. It is believed that they still house juvenile sex offenders, they just don't offer a "program". The concern among the neighbors was if they had an organized program, the whole facility would eventually be for sex offenders. Late last spring Wyndham Lawn applied to the town of Lkpt for two building permits. The first one to add on to a building at the Old Niagara Rd campus, needed an area variance. They were given the variance and construction has started. The second building permit was for an addition to the building on the Niagara County fairgrounds which Wyndham owns. They need a use variance for that. They withdrew their application for that and haven't reapplied to my knowledge. The management from Wyndham had been meeting with representatives from the community monthly but failed to tell them about the plans for the building expansions. Now, the monthly meetings don't seem to be taking place anymore. It makes you wonder how concerned Wyndham is about their image in the community.

MBrophy · Veteran Member

Anonymous,

Thanks for answering. I didn't know that there was a distinction between having a program w/ sex offenders and housing sex offenders -- I thought either they were there or they weren't. That must be scary for their neighbors, especially w/ all the kids who are able to run away so easily. I used to tutor one of them years ago and she just took off one day and that was the end of that.

Date: Fri Sep 9 10:26 AM, 2005

MBrophy wrote:

Anonymous, Thanks for answering. I didn't know that there was a distinction between having a program w/ sex offenders and housing sex offenders -- I thought either they were there or they weren't. That must be scary for their neighbors, especially w/ all the kids who are able to run away so easily. I used to tutor one of them years ago and she just took off one day and that was the end of that.

Some of the kids at Wyndham have been involved in some sort "sex crime" for lack of better words. The staff doesn't always know it until after they've been a resident for awhile. The sex offender program they wanted to implement would have involved housing juveniles involved in a sex crime in one building with locks, alarms, block glass windows,etc. But, remember Wyndham management said these kids wouldn't pose a threat to the community! They would go thru structured treatment and hopefully be rehabilitated. Research shows however that the ability to rehab a sex offender is slim to none. The threat the community faced was that if this program went well [produced profits] that the rest of Wyndham would be converted to handle sex offenders. Keep in mind these kids can be up to 18 yrs old. It's not just the immediate neighborhood that should be worried about the runaways. These kids are very streetwise, the whole Lockport area, city and town, should be concerned. In my opinion this facility shouldn't be in a heavily populated area, but nobody wants to do anything about it.

Dovey · Date: Fri Sep 9 11:50 AM, 2005

Quote | ReplyWyndham Lawn History

From 1933 at the age of 7 my Dad lived there along with his 2 brothers.He lived there till he was 15.You all live near there.Wondering if you had any imfo. of the place years ago.This subject really does not fit my whitty self............

Anonymous
Date: Fri May 6 9:10 AM, 2005
Views: 76

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Ok so do not make me turn into Annie"The sun will come out tomarrow" And Daddy Warbucks is on his way...........

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Fri May 6 9:12 AM, 2005
Views: 74

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

That last one was me.Due to my singing ,I forgot to log in.......Now the cat is hiding

alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Fri May 6 9:30 AM, 2005
Views: 72

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

What kind of info are you looking for?

jspeer

Senior Member

Posts: 358
Date: Fri May 6 10:22 AM, 2005
Views: 69

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

I should have known you were a cat lover.

jspeer

Senior Member

Posts: 358
Date: Fri May 6 10:25 AM, 2005
Views: 68

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Just think I invented your whole image.....your welcome. Good thing I didn't say "The Cheshire Cat" from Alice in Wonderland. Then your quotes would be even more twisted.

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Fri May 6 3:00 PM, 2005
Views: 61

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

To AW ,what it was like there.Hopefully they did not do any testing there. I am reading the P- files scarey crap

-- Edited by Dovey at 15:04, 2005-05-06

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Fri May 6 3:03 PM, 2005
Views: 60

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Hey jspeer .......MEOW......I;m late I"m late for a very important date.I may have to read up on this one while sitting in my tree.Ty for the help......

kspeer

Senior Member

Posts: 183
Date: Fri May 6 3:35 PM, 2005
Views: 55

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

You're not "witty" and you should use spell check.

alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Fri May 6 5:48 PM, 2005
Views: 48

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

I'm reading that too. I worked at wl as a night worker 15 years back. I used to read the old books. They have all kinds of letters from kids that lived there when it was an orphanage, all of them good. People come back to visit around x-mas and for open house, always greatfull and full of happy memories. I guess as an orphanage it was nice. It was also an infirmary at one point. The place has a lot of ghosts, I never saw one but they have a log. I hope that helps.

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Fri May 6 6:26 PM, 2005
Views: 44

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

To Aw,Thank you ,did help.My Dad was in there till he was old enough to work on the farm.He could have been in the infirmary to begin with ,He and his brothers had somekind of rash on them,that was treared at the court house,with a shot.So goes the story related to me by my aunt.I have pictures which are pretty cool.Shows the WL dog....After reading the book P=files in chapter 4 how they signed the womens death cert.Made me think about this again.My grandmothers was signed that way.Was a secert.I found out 4 years ago....What kind of log do they have?

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Fri May 6 6:29 PM, 2005
Views: 43

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Dear Kspeer,witty is as witty does.........I would not know where to find spell check on here......So you gotta live with it.

kspeer

Senior Member

Posts: 183
Date: Fri May 6 9:53 PM, 2005
Views: 38

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Dovey, the problem is I would love to follow what you post, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Oompa Loompa doopity do, I've got another riddle for you. How many licks does it take to get to the center? Who's on first, what's on second? If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to hear it, does the tree really fall? My mother and your mother were out hanging clothes. My mother punched your mother right in the nose. What color was the blood? Ink a dink a bottle of ink, the cork fell out and you stink!

jspeer

Senior Member

Posts: 358
Date: Fri May 6 11:57 PM, 2005
Views: 34

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Hey Dovey, isn't that saying stupid is as stupid does?

Anonymous
Date: Sat May 7 4:17 AM, 2005
Views: 30

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Hey Speers...(both)

Is this Brittney? One day you use a man's avatar and then you use a womans. Are YOU conflicted? When talking to other posters, it is wise to hold ones tongue and be nice--or maybe get that bloody nose you so gleefully wrote about when MY MOTHER decked yours and drew first blood. Speers can be snapped in half and broken. Be civil--OR ELSE!

The Anonymous Kick-boxing Pugilist

Anonymous
Date: Sat May 7 4:21 AM, 2005
Views: 29

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

AND JS, from what I heard and read within the ladies room stall walls, you're less than half 'that' size. Ron Jeremy you're NOT!

Get a grip...oh, wait, I'd bet you got that area covered.

TAKBP

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sat May 7 6:23 AM, 2005
Views: 26

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

Many thanks to kick boxer 2xs....In willy wonka the nasty girl did not last long,Try some midol......willy wonka kinda fits in with the orpan. thing........keep smileing

Anonymous
Date: Sat May 7 7:51 AM, 2005
Views: 24

Quote | ReplyRE: Wyndham Lawn History

No problem Dovey. Doves are symbols of Peace. I like cats in hats too.

Personally, I think the two Speers are one-in-the same and suffering from bipolar or schitz-o-fraid-aya, along with some Trans-gender issues that are in need of addressing--or, undressing..

Let them try that in THEIR spell checkers.

Call me if they give you any more SH#%!

TAKBP

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sat May 7 7:57 AM, 2005
Views: 22

Quote | ReplyRE: RE: Wyndham Lawn History

quote:

Originally posted by: Anonymous
"No problem Dovey. Doves are symbols of Peace. I like cats in hats too. Personally, I think the two Speers are one-in-the same and suffering from bipolar or schitz-o-fraid-aya, along with some Trans-gender issues that are in need of addressing--or, undressing.. Let them try that in THEIR spell checkers. Call me if they give you any more SH#%! TAKBP"

I think I like TAKBP........TY again

alwayswatching
Guru

Posts: 537
Date: Sat May 7 10:40 AM, 2005
Views: 18

Quote | ReplyRE: RE: Wyndham Lawn History

quote:

Originally posted by: Dovey
" To Aw,Thank you ,did help.My Dad was in there till he was old enough to work on the farm.He could have been in the infirmary to begin with ,He and his brothers had somekind of rash on them,that was treared at the court house,with a shot.So goes the story related to me by my aunt.I have pictures which are pretty cool.Shows the WL dog....After reading the book P=files in chapter 4 how they signed the womens death cert.Made me think about this again.My grandmothers was signed that way.Was a secert.I found out 4 years ago....What kind of log do they have?"

It's a ghost log and it's really cool. It went back 60 years or so, I don't know if they still have it. Long time workers told me that they would follow them on bed check rounds and open/close all the doors behind them. Again I never saw anything, but wish I had. AW

Dovey
Senior Member

Posts: 477
Date: Sat May 7 6:40 PM, 2005
Views: 12

Quote | ReplyRE: RE: RE: Wyndham Lawn History

quote:

Originally posted by: alwayswatching
"It's a ghost log and it's really cool. It went back 60 years or so, I don't know if they still have it. Long time workers told me that they would follow them on bed check rounds and open/close all the doors behind them. Again I never saw anything, but wish I had. AW"

I talked to someone in the office there 4 years ago and they said all the records were kept i think in the attic,I could maybe get to my dads records if they were still there,I would have to bring my extu.papers,But would love to see the log.I think my dad said nuns were there then?

Date: Fri Sep 9 12:04 PM, 2005

You people are pathetically shallow and selfish. So much for the great American spirit of generosity we hear about. In Lockport it's been replaced by NIMBY.

Date: Sat Sep 10 5:53 AM, 2005

OH,DO EXPLAIN.

MBrophy · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

You people are pathetically shallow and selfish. So much for the great American spirit of generosity we hear about. In Lockport it's been replaced by NIMBY.

What do you find objectionable about people being concerned about juveniles w/ a violent past coming to their community? Also, I would like to know what your definition of shallow is and why you think it applies to this conversation?

Mindcrime · Guru

I think what Anon. meant by the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) comment is that people never want any kind of social help to be established near their home. Anytime someone wants to open a clinic or a rehab center or any kind of social program, they rise up in numbers and tell them to build somewhere else because they're afraid of their property values going down. That does seem like a shallow justification for not helping someone who needs it.

Let's say there was a 15-year-old child who didn't have the benefit of proper upbringing or a respectful environment and ended up doing something sexually innappopriate. (Remember that no one is born knowing societies' rules, they have to be taught.) He's labeled a sexual offender and sent...where? Lockport? No! Citizens are standing around with signs cursing him and calling him names. Niagara Falls? No! People are protesting and ridiculing him in the paper. North Tonawanda? No! We don't want "those" people here...

Why is it everyone agrees that certain people need our help, but no one is willing to give it? Does it stand to reason that we make people outcasts before they even get here? You have to start somewhere. A fifteen-year-old boy is not as threatening as Wyndhams opponents would make him out to be. Yes, he may have have committed a violent act in the past, but does that condemn his entire future? I thought America was about second chances. I thought Christians were about forgiveness and understanding. What does that behavior say about our community?

Just my

Date: Sat Sep 10 5:39 PM, 2005

MC ,your 2 cents are worth so much more!To bad everyone can not see this light.Good Job!

MBrophy · Veteran Member

Mindcrime wrote:

I think what Anon. meant by the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) comment is that people never want any kind of social help to be established near their home. Anytime someone wants to open a clinic or a rehab center or any kind of social program, they rise up in numbers and tell them to build somewhere else because they're afraid of their property values going down. That does seem like a shallow justification for not helping someone who needs it. Let's say there was a 15-year-old child who didn't have the benefit of proper upbringing or a respectful environment and ended up doing something sexually innappopriate. (Remember that no one is born knowing societies' rules, they have to be taught.) He's labeled a sexual offender and sent...where? Lockport? No! Citizens are standing around with signs cursing him and calling him names. Niagara Falls? No! People are protesting and ridiculing him in the paper. North Tonawanda? No! We don't want "those" people here... Why is it everyone agrees that certain people need our help, but no one is willing to give it? Does it stand to reason that we make people outcasts before they even get here? You have to start somewhere. A fifteen-year-old boy is not as threatening as Wyndhams opponents would make him out to be. Yes, he may have have committed a violent act in the past, but does that condemn his entire future? I thought America was about second chances. I thought Christians were about forgiveness and understanding. What does that behavior say about our community? Just my

MC,

Don't get me wrong, I understand what he means by NIMBY; I just don't think shallow ("of little depth, superficial" -- American College Dictionary) is an accurate word to describe the opponents of having WL house more violent juveniles. LP residents obviously have a vested interest in living and raising children in a safe community -- that is not a superficial or shallow concern in my book. It's my opinion but I tend to think that people should be a bit more precise in their language when they're hurling anonymous insults.

I'm still on the fence about this; I guess I can see your argument and the first anonymous poster's point. As I mentioned before, I tutored a resident of WL and she ran away and was not heard from again. If WL is going to house kids w/ a more violent past, it's a little scary considering how seemingly easy it is for the kids to walk right out of the facility. Further, as someone mentioned before, sex offenders have a very high rate of recidivism which has caused some to speculate as to whether they can be rehabilitated. Now, I don't know about that nor do I know if I like the fact that sex offenders' names and photos are published on the front page of newspapers nowadays; it seems like it precludes people from getting a second chance if they want to turn over a new leaf. However, I think its reasonable for people to be concerned and to want to be aware of what's going on in their backyard.

Date: Sat Sep 10 6:25 PM, 2005

Here's one of the more recent stories from the WL "log." Sounds more like ghost stories but is sort of a nice story and kind of creepy. Supposedly, there's a few wash rooms that are no longer used and all the plumbing has been off for years. The toilets, dividers and stalls, along with all the other fixtures, mirrors, towel holders and that sort of thing are still there and in place. It's told that this happens on the third or forth floor. Ah, well, on a part of one wing where this particular wash room is located, every once in a while the workers will hear noises coming from the vacant bathroom. The story goes that when anyone goes to investigate the door closes behind them and the light will come on to show that there is steam all over the mirrors like someone had just taken a shower. The only thing is, there's no water and especially no hot water, so the steam is unexplainable. On the mirror written in steam and surrounded by the heart symbol are six initials, three + three, as lovers used to carve initials into tree bark, like that.

The initials are mjvjlr and the date is 1940. No one there seems to know what it means. Sounds very weird but kind of believable.

Wouldn't be so unusual if it was carved some place in a wall or table or chair but just showing up from time to time in steam on old mirrors with no running water is really out there. And it can't be the windows or condensation because the floor is heated with forced air and the glass sealed shut. Maybe should have saved this one for Halloweeen or Valentines Day. Sounds like some young lad in love to me.

alwayswatching · Veteran Member

“You people are pathetically shallow and selfish. So much for the great American spirit of generosity we hear about. In Lockport it's been replaced by NIMBY.”

I really don’t understand posts like this. MB asked a question, some posters tried to answer the best they could. I don’t see what is shallow or selfish about this thread. I also don’t understand why this old thread was cut and pasted in. It doesn’t seem like they are the same topic, just different conversations about WL. But don’t get me started about anonymous posters.

I think the neighbors concern was because this is a non-secure detention facility. Kid’s run all the time from there. I don’t think they understand that just because it is non-secure it doesn’t have violent offenders, because it does or did. Unlike a secure facility, this one focuses on therapy. I don’t know if a secure building would work on this particular campus, but I never saw any plans. The residents had good cause to be concerned because this has never been a secure facility. I think they didn’t feel it was possible to make it one. I haven’t worked there for over 15 years, but they house all kinds of kids. Kids with no families, abused kids and violent kids. Many went on to be very successful adults, and others will always be part of the system. But while they were on that campus they were kids, and given a chance and some love kids can do amazing things.

Now on to the ghosts. As I said in the pasted thread I never saw one, but many of my co-worker did. They used to tell me about it because I worked in the mansion at night. It is only 2 floors plus and attic. As the stories go, the main wing is the most haunted. Many of the night security guards saw ghosts. The security office was above the kitchen and the only space in that wing that was used except for storage. I don’t remember anything about the bathroom, but don’t doubt it. There is a little girl that plays the piano in the main parlor at night. For a short time there was a security guard that was afraid of ghosts. Sometimes the radios wouldn’t work so other cottages would call me to get him. Every time I did it scared the snot out of him because he thought I was the girl that plays the piano. I have to admit, I would go over just to spook him sometimes when I was board. The things you do to amuse yourself when your tired, ah memories. The people I knew who saw the ghosts were not afraid of them at all. They were spooked at first, but got used to them. There were women that looked out the window and cried. Whenever work needed to be done they would do it at night so it wouldn’t disrupt day time routines. There is one ghost that used to follow the workmen around and another that rearranges the kitchen at night.

Date: Sun Sep 11 10:33 AM, 2005

Anonymous wrote:

Here's one of the more recent stories from the WL "log." Sounds more like ghost stories but is sort of a nice story and kind of creepy. Supposedly, there's a few wash rooms that are no longer used and all the plumbing has been off for years. The toilets, dividers and stalls, along with all the other fixtures, mirrors, towel holders and that sort of thing are still there and in place. It's told that this happens on the third or forth floor. Ah, well, on a part of one wing where this particular wash room is located, every once in a while the workers will hear noises coming from the vacant bathroom. The story goes that when anyone goes to investigate the door closes behind them and the light will come on to show that there is steam all over the mirrors like someone had just taken a shower. The only thing is, there's no water and especially no hot water, so the steam is unexplainable. On the mirror written in steam and surrounded by the heart symbol are six initials, three + three, as lovers used to carve initials into tree bark, like that. The initials are mjvjlr and the date is 1940. No one there seems to know what it means. Sounds very weird but kind of believable. Wouldn't be so unusual if it was carved some place in a wall or table or chair but just showing up from time to time in steam on old mirrors with no running water is really out there. And it can't be the windows or condensation because the floor is heated with forced air and the glass sealed shut. Maybe should have saved this one for Halloweeen or Valentines Day. Sounds like some young lad in love to me.

Let's here some more !

soccermom · Member

When I was in high school I read a book about the main building at Wyndham Lawn. From what I remember it talked about secret passage ways and hidden rooms. Does anyone know the name of the book? I'd also like to remind you that the Cummings brothers that murdered Jennifer Bolander in Niagara Falls a couple of years ago had just been released from Wyndham Lawn. You don't know the type of cliental they're dealing with. Most of the kids are probably harmless, but you never know.

shughes · Senior Member

I'd like to read that book too. Wyndham Lawn has/had tunnels that went from the basement to the out buildings. One went to the gate house, one to the stables that were where the campus school is now. I don't know where the others went, but there are 4 or 5. The entrances are boarded up, but I bet most of the tunnels are still there.

Date: Mon Sep 12 6:02 PM, 2005

Governor Washington Hunt

The New York governor and Lockport lawyer is perhaps the most famous resident here.

Hunt came to Lockport from Vermont in 1828, first working as a clerk and then studying law. He was admitted to the bar in 1834 but never gained much fame or fortune from his practice.

Most of Hunt's money came from a partnership he formed with his well-to-do father-in-law, Henry Walbridge. They bought up the remaining land in this area from the Holland Land Company, about 32,000 acres, and re-sold it in smaller parcels.

First active in the Democratic Party, he served as a Niagara County Judge for five years. He then switched to the Whig Party and ran for, and was elected to, Congress in 1842, serving three terms. Later he was first appointed, then elected, New York State Comptroller.

He then ran (as a Whig) for New York Governor and was elected (by only a 262 vote margin) in 1850 for a two year term. The significant accomplishment of his term was to advocate for and sign legislation for the Erie Barge Canal. He was defeated for a second term as governor and returned to Lockport to make money in land dealings.

Hunt had a residence and office off Market Street in Lowertown and but his famous mansion and estate was at Wyndham Lawn, on the northern border of Lockport. The spacious Wyndham property has been lost to public appreciation, having been turned into a home for wayward boys and girls. The former Hunt law office has been moved to the campus of the Niagara County Historical Society where it is open for public viewing. Washington Hunt, learning he was near death, spent his final months in New York City under hospital care in an attempt to deal with cancer. One of Lockport's public elementary schools is named after him.

John Hodge Memorial

The Hodge monument is one of the tallest found in cemeteries in the state.

John Hodge came to Lockport at age ten and turned out to be one of the most prominent Lockportians of the last half the 19th century.

Most of his money came from his involvement in the Lockport Merchant's Gargling Oil Company which he eventually became sole manager of. He is the third Lockportain who made a fortune selling the dubious "medicine" to thousands across the United States.

One of his results of his money was the once prestigious Hodge Opera House which burned down twice (where Bewley Building is today).

His will left instructions to his widow to fund the building of the stone archway at the entry to Glenwood Cemetery. This archway was made from a single block of granite.

Outwater Memorial

The Outwater family of Lockport traces roots back to Holland from where early Lockport settlers came by way of New Jersey. The Outwaters are a true pioneer Lockport family and these early residents were involved in a number of occupations and locations around Niagara County.

The most famous and generous of the Outwaters was Dr. Samuel Outwater who practiced medicine here. After retiring from practice he moved to the Oakland, CA area where he died in March of 1953 at the age of 95. His ashes were brought back to Lockport by his widow, Alice, and were placed in a plot at Cold Springs Cemetery. Other members of the Outwater family are buried here at Glenwood around the family monument pictured here. Alice died in Septemer of 1968 (also in Oakland) and her remains are also at Cold Springs, not here.

Dr. Outwater gave the city of Lockport most of the property which Outwater Park is located on. Additionally he provided the city with money for its upkeep. His family home at 215 Niagara Street was willed to the Niagara County Historical Society and is the base for their present museum campus. Outwater also provided the Society with a generous contribution of money to support the property.

John Pound Memorial

The Lockport elementary school on High Street at Saxton is named after Mr. Pound, born in Lockport in 1843.

John E. Pound was President of the Lockport Board of Education in the late 1800's. In 1898 in that capacity he presided over ceremonies marking the 50th anniversary of Lockport's old Union School which was founded at the same time Lockport's first Board of Education was elected---1848.

A lawyer, Pound served in the State Legislature, was twice Mayor of Lockport, and worked eight years as Assistant United States Attorney.

He was a leader in Grace Episcopal Church and was active in many Lockport civic organizations along with being on the Board of numerous area businesses. He was President of the old "Home of the Friendless," the predecessor of today's Wyndham Lawn Home

soccermom · Member

I knew about Hunt, but didn't know why the doorway at the mansion says Hodge Infirmary. This makes sense, Hodge must have operated an infirmary and made gargling oil. Anyone that had a relative at Wyndham Lawn when it was an orphanage can call Kara Hamilton @ 716-358-3636. If you can prove who you are she may give you some info on their stay there. Hopefully someone will know the name of the book that talks about the secret passages!

Date: Wed Sep 14 7:50 AM, 2005

Who is Kara Hamilton?Anyone one know the mane of the book?

soccermom · Member

I believe Kara Hamilton is an employee at Wyndham. I can't remember the name of the book and no one else knows it! Help!