Using the Lewiston Wildlife Refuge as a dumpsite

Date: Sun Sep 18 8:21 PM, 2005

Using the Lewiston Wildlife Refuge as a dumpsite

Date: Mon Sep 19 12:33 AM, 2005

That's all dump land anyway up there from the days of the Power Authority. What's the big deal? In the location being written about on the Artpark "spoils" (appropriate) pile "plateau," the soccer fields were all topped with dirt from that old military site--The Lake Ontario Ordnance Works, even against the best advice. Yeah, Mr. Soluri from Lewiston, NY, Dick is slick!

The dirt used up on the top of the Lewiston hill was taken from an area about 300 yards west of where this plutonium stuff is being found.

No one seemed to care what dirt was used when these soccer fields and "wildlife habitat" was built, what's the problem with some broken concrete fill now? I'd be way more concerned with what's underneath.

Date: Mon Sep 19 7:14 AM, 2005

Wow. What's the big deal? I guess that's the same stone-age mentality that allowed the plutonium dumping here in the first place. Perhaps the fact that trees and shrubs are natural filters doesn't matter? The fact that tree roots can and do hold ground pollutants in place and still go on to scour the air of its pollutions with its leaves as well as give back the oxgen that you breath doesen't matter? What about aesthetics, simple beauty? No value there either? If that area isn't protected watch for it to be developed.

I suppose it's also appropriate for a model airplane club to not only fly their toys in the same place, but to post a sign and be proud of it. Yeah. Even after education, Souluri not only allowed it to happen, he supported it. Nice way to undo those environemental grant funds he recieved to create the wildlife refuge isn't it?

The fact that Mayor Soluri is a greenway commissioner doesn't concern you is appalling. He's only on the commission to obstruct. He is indifferent to the enviroment. Read the latest Sentinel if you think that's bogus.

If you are truly as concerned about the LOOW and other nuclear waste sites as you imply perhaps you should work with local environemental groups to get him and two others off the Niagara Greenway Commission. There's a chance to place people on the commission who will work for a true greenway, not a highway lined with grass. Who knows, with environementally conscious people in place it could spill over and do some good for nuclear cleanup as well. Unless it has been changed, the next Greenway Commission meeting is Wed. Sept. 21. 3:00. Beaver Island. Will you help or will you obstruct?

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

Anonymous postings are worthless and without credibility.

Good on Joan Johnson and R.O.L.E. and the Pheasant group and the Entomology Club and all others who are coalitioning and fighting to restore this wildlife habitat for which they put in the hard work getting grants and contributed to building it.

The Village of Lewiston needs to live up to its original agreement or give the money back. We will be monitoring future grant applications applied for by the Village and offering feedback to the grantors with regards to the Village's inclination to renege on its promises.

NuclearLou · Senior Member

Hey, I surveyed the land on the hill atop Artpark for the wildlife habitat--you must've forgotten me J.H. :*)

R.O.L.E.--Now that's a laugh, as R.O.L.E.'s president in the past couldn't come up with the soils testing results for that crap--that was transported off the Lake Ontario Ordnance Works site (Long's Niagara River Anglers) http://www.niagarariveranglers.com/Wilderness%20Preserve2.htm

(See: camping, "catch and Release," Plutonium Poison Ivy warning...) and spread around as "dirt" all over the plateau above Artpark. (I wonder if that "soil" from up there dusted the lower Lewiston Village shops, gardens, parking lots...hmm?)

Coalitioning? For whose benefit? You have a coalition for birds but not for people--especially the kids that play soccer up there now? Yeah, like R.O.L.E. needs one more P.R. spot for all the good they have done (zero)--AND PLEASE, don't list all of the "wonderful, wonderful." Cause it's all bogus and a front from any of the mentioned groups. You left out the "Birchers."

Coalition? What's next--Singing Kumbaya around a bond fire behind Lew-Port School or over at the LOOW site with Resident's for Responsible Government and Senator Francine? Oops, I mean Assemblywoman Clinton..."my Lord Kumbaya, someone's lying Lord, Kumbaya..." NO FURTHER SINGING!

Give it a break or call a spade a spade.

LR

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 16:08, 2005-09-19

Date: Mon Sep 19 4:43 PM, 2005

Why don't you ask Mr. James Sacco, NYSDEC jasacco@gw.dec.state.ny.us.

He usually posts here and is the NYSDEC monitor and Signatory of Record on permits

www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dshm/hzwstman/2005cwm1stpg.pdf

at the Waste Management-CWM facility there in Lewiston-Porter where all that nasty stuff is located. Why hasn't Mr. Sacco made any comments about that situation, and why does he only leave typical Niagara County political hack comments?

Ignore the obvious--Point out the inconsequential--like a campaign sign SIGH! Comment J.S.?

Date: Mon Sep 19 4:53 PM, 2005

A better link...

http://www.epa.gov/region02/waste/fscwm.htm

Notice names

Date: Mon Sep 19 5:08 PM, 2005

HOLY SHIITE! Ding, ding, ding, ding high-level Ringer alert! Looks like bad conflict.

YOUR DEC GUY KNOWS ALL THE DIRT BURIED IN LEWISTON-PORTER AT CWM! All of it.

http://www.epa.gov/region02/waste/fscwm.htm

Some of these documents say "SECRET," "FOIA." WHY'S THAT? Mr. Sacco? Who's protecting whom?

Why do you want to talk here of political signs a couple of weeks before deemed appropriate? Are you a paid political environmental overseer and planner? A sort of "Bait and Switch"? "Look over there"? Does the NYSDEC study 'infiltration'?

Date: Tue Sep 20 1:27 AM, 2005

Notice fish club (Niagara River Anglers-John Long, R-Lewiston), Plutonium and schools. Yep, everyone's real worried about concrete rubble at the Lewiston Wildlife Refuge and "coalescing" at Artpark with RRG and R.O.L.E.--Sheesh!

Date: Tue Sep 20 6:55 AM, 2005

RE: Notice fish club (Niagara River Anglers-John Long, R-Lewiston), Plutonium and schools. Yep, everyone's real worried about concrete rubble at the Lewiston Wildlife Refuge and "coalescing" at Artpark with RRG and R.O.L.E.--Sheesh!

Oh. I get it. Your issues aren't at the front for the moment, so now nobody else's can be either? I suppose coordination of efforts is out too, then. Too bad. I would have helped you. But that seems to be the major difference between us.

I believe the question posed (and ignored) was: Will you help or will you obstruct? Guess it's obstruct. Too bad. You just lost credibility.

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

NuclearLou wrote:

Hey, I surveyed the land on the hill atop Artpark for the wildlife habitat--you must've forgotten me J.H. :*) R.O.L.E.--Now that's a laugh, as R.O.L.E.'s president in the past couldn't come up with the soils testing results for that crap--that was transported off the Lake Ontario Ordnance Works site (Long's Niagara River Anglers) http://www.niagarariveranglers.com/Wilderness%20Preserve2.htm (See: camping, "catch and Release," Plutonium Poison Ivy warning...) and spread around as "dirt" all over the plateau above Artpark. (I wonder if that "soil" from up there dusted the lower Lewiston Village shops, gardens, parking lots...hmm?) Coalitioning? For whose benefit? You have a coalition for birds but not for people--especially the kids that play soccer up there now? Yeah, like R.O.L.E. needs one more P.R. spot for all the good they have done (zero)--AND PLEASE, don't list all of the "wonderful, wonderful." Cause it's all bogus and a front from any of the mentioned groups. You left out the "Birchers." Coalition? What's next--Singing Kumbaya around a bond fire behind Lew-Port School or over at the LOOW site with Resident's for Responsible Government and Senator Francine? Oops, I mean Assemblywoman Clinton..."my Lord Kumbaya, someone's lying Lord, Kumbaya..." NO FURTHER SINGING! Give it a break or call a spade a spade. LR-- Edited by NuclearLou at 16:08, 2005-09-19

Let's just look at it this way Nuke. You do a lot of good work in your area, and other groups do a lot of good work at what they're interested in. Nobody in my organizations is opposed to what you stand for, we just have our own agendas that we work on and once in a while interests overlap and we can help each other out, but generally people don't heap vituperative abuse on one another just because we don't pay sufficient lip service to one or another cause at any given time.

You gave a stack of materials on Plutonium to Niagara Heritage Partnership a year or so ago, the materials were reproduced and distributed to over a dozen of our key members. I for one looked at the materials, as did others, but it was simply nothing we wanted to take on full-time at the expense of our Parkway removal agenda. This should not be cause for you to spend hours on the internet slinging around accusations and denigrations.

We aren't interested in carrying your banner full-time. We have our own things we're working on. So why don't you be a man and stop whining constantly and muddling our issues with yours when we try to get our message out and move on. When an avenue doesn't help a true advocate, they simply find another avenue, not waste time on a computer undermining the ones that prove not productive.

We have over 80 organizations, including block clubs, business groups, nature clubs, and many others listed on our home page at niagaraheritage.org who have endorsed NHP goals. Why don't you roll up your sleeves and do some real organizing like we have, and R.O.L.E. has, and the other groups you are so resentful of. Start your own organization. Have your own meetings. Start working with people instead of accusing them of being stupid and uncaring. Believe me, you'll get more done.

Jim Hufnagel

225 Ontario St

Wilson NY 14172

716-751-3877

Date: Tue Sep 20 1:31 PM, 2005

"I would have helped you." No thanks. I think that would have hurt credability WAY MORE than anything else. How can you help in any way when you won't even sign your name? DUH.

Everyone is sooo sad that YOU won't help now--who even left these posts? Do you know?

Date: Tue Sep 20 7:42 PM, 2005

Jimmy: Seems you've lost your grasp on reality again. Go back on the meds~! All of Lewiston IS a dump. Put that on your table and rub it. WHat's your beef with this guy? He makes more sense than you do.

Date: Tue Sep 20 7:55 PM, 2005

JimmyWack:

Please follow this logic Mr. Cheesenoggin: Here's what you said earlier..."Anonymous postings are worthless and without credibility." Now, blowhard--look at who started this thread. So, by the default of your own admission, your issue is worthless and without credibility. If you want to play War of the Words, and this is just a suggestion, but perhaps you should maintain a bit of consistency and maybe even review your own previous posts. Poor fellow, is the ADHD kicking in again>??

NuclearLou · Senior Member

Knock off the name calling and everyone start signing in--or it's worthless, right?

I will stand on these simple questions from before that still go UNanswered:

Hey J.H.: What was ever found out about the roadbed of the Robert M. Parkway being radiologically contaminated?

What about R.O.L.E.(Residents Organized for Lewiston's Environment) finding out (and posting here) if there's Plutonium in the drinking water? That's kind-of important. R.O.L.E.'s president, Tim Henderson did have access to the original email that RRG's (Resident's for Responsible Government) president Vince Agnello sent out to a medical doctor type MD that asked "How much Plutonium was O.K.ey dokey to be in Lewiston's drinking water." Mr. Henderson does work in the Lewiston Water Department--doesn't he?

(With only One more president and two Jacks--we could maybe get a flush:)

What about them-thar 'soils' from the Federal Lands up on them-thar soccer and bird sanctuary fields?

New ? (IF I may?) Where will you bury the Robert Moses Parkway demolition materials? (Especially, if you ignore the potential radiological content to any of the millings or dust. PLENTY OF citations.) Oh, BTW, NHP (Niagara Heritage Partnership) was provided with Pu citations (did nothing) as far back as 2001--that's going on five years and unfortunately not as was portrayed in an earlier post.)

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 22:21, 2005-09-20

Date: Wed Sep 21 4:19 AM, 2005

Read the below from a self proclaimed "environ-Mental-ist" J.H.BonNagel.

"You gave a stack of materials on Plutonium to Niagara Heritage Partnership a year or so ago, the materials were reproduced and distributed to over a dozen of our key members." "I for one looked at the materials, as did others, but it was simply nothing we wanted to take on full-time at the expense of our Parkway removal agenda."

The only true word in your post Hufnagel is "AGENDA," and some don't think it's a very good one. I've read a lot about J.H. and HIS organization(s)--like RRG-Residents for Responsible Government? (Still say it should be GRR-Government Responsible for Residents) PCB's and Huffy-Nagel walking all the way from Albany (heard that RRG's Bill Choboy actually drove him), drawing attention AWAY from what's here already--LIKE Pu in the drinking water--to a problem that NEVER existed with the PCBs from the Hudson as the "front."

Speaking of PCBs, good enviro-groups and J.H.: Remember a couple of years ago when Chemical Waste Management-CWM "inadvertantly" accepted and buried some electrical capacitors at their Lewiston-Porter location and were then fined? (How much was that fine again, Mr. Sacco?)... Funny thing, NO ONE EVER MENTIONED that those capacitors--were from the government's Uranium enrichment facility located in and shipped here from Padukah, Kentucky.

If you don't believe me, an Anonymous poster, go ask Mr. Sacco. He knows! (Then maybe, he could also tell us about Tom Brokaw's anthrax contaminated desk and office furnishings being buried right here at CWM Lewiston!) "Someone's lying Lord, Kumbaya..." All sway.

Date: Thu Sep 22 8:46 AM, 2005

What a crock!! Just heard J.H. on the radio...LOL! What logic? What courtesty to an elderly lady?

JH said to the lady--"If you were listening."

Date: Thu Sep 29 7:10 PM, 2005

NL: ShabastadudeO. YOU ROCK!! Keep us laughin.

shughes · Senior Member

Why is it that whenever an anonymous poster backs Lou, JH posts a reply to Lou? I have no idea who started this thread and don’t care, stop assuming. As for this comment directed at Lou:

“Have your own meetings. Start working with people instead of accusing them of being stupid and uncaring. Believe me, you'll get more done.”

Mr. Hufnagel you are way off base and very wrong. I’m not going to go into an in depth explanation, but Lou is doing exactly that and then some. Check your fact’s before you go throwing stones.

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

Like Scott announced at the beginning of Dialog Wednesday, the cleanup of the refuge by the Village of Lewiston has begun.

Thanks to all of you for your support and concern on this issue. When people work together, things get done!

NuclearLou · Senior Member

So Jim, can you work with me here...?

I need to know if there is Plutonium in the drinking water around Lewiston. It was nice that the Village of Lewiston is going to remove the refuse from the refuge. I am happy for Joanie and all of those who put time and effort into developing this area.

Would you also find out if that dirt from the Lake Ontario Ordnance Works site and Long's Walleye-NYSDEC rearing area, Balmer Road-near the Pu find, that was brought up to the top of the soccer and wildlife fields, was ever tested and cleared? Any results available?

I'd sure appreciate you finding these things out. Since you have a good relationship with Lewiston's R.O.L.E. and others, including the Niagara Heritage Partnership and Niagara Frontier Wildlife Council.

I was hoping that we could get this squared up and then move on. Would you be able to find out these things and then post them here? I'm sure everyone that knows about this is now concerned.

Thanks for any cooperation you can extend and information you can find out on these very important environmental issues facing this, and for the generations to come.

NLR

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 19:56, 2005-09-30

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

I certainly agree with the goal of removing plutonium waste from Western New York, but am already busy on other issues that concern me greatly.

You are in a far better position than I, or anyone else, to ascertain whether it has infiltrated the drinking water (and since I'm told that Canadians have detected it in the Niagara River, there is good reason to think it does) and whether any testing is being done. Why not engage DelMonte or Maziarz or Slaughter on this issue of testing. Your initiative in getting Rep. Slaughter to agree to follow up with the Health Department when she was Scott's guest on Dialog was admirable. If the Congresswoman can come up with $2 million for a bike trail up steep Lewiston hill that includes at least two overpasses over the Parkway, two years before the Greenway Commission report comes out, why couldn't she come up with the bread to fund a simple test of the drinking water?

I've been assured by Bob Baxter that none of the soil at the refuge came from the LOOW site. That's good enough for me, but you could contact him to find out his source of this information.

As far as the organizations you mention, you would be a far better advocate on these issues for these groups than I would, especially since there are several areas of disagreement remaining between us.

NuclearLou · Senior Member

Thanks anyway Jim.

Here's how I understand things: You've split hairs and used ERBaxter III-Bob's Niagara Heritage Partnership as the explanation for the soils on the Artpark Spoils Pile--that was turned into the wildlife habitat and kids soccer fields above a cultural center that was built on a big pile of excavation detritus-debris from the power project days and from industrial areas in the first place. Correct?

O.K....the soils for the habitat came from the Burnt Ship Creek dredging and the area around that portion of Grand Island. Then, the soils from the LOOW site - Long's walleye rearing ponds and NYSDEC hatchery on Balmer Road - were brought up to the soccer fields directly adjacent to the wildlife habitat area. Correct?

I for one, was not there, and I'm not too sure that ERB was there either when the dirt was spread out overlooking the Village of Lewiston--where you shop and patronize businesses. Did you read the statements previously asking about "dusting" the village? Does that not concern you or any of your groups?

From what I have learned, the Burnt Ship Creek dredging may not have been such a good choice for soils either. "Burnt Ship." Hmm? Let me see...What was upstream of these burning ships of yore soils used by NHP-NFWHC for the "habitat"? Linde Tonawanda Uranium refinery, Dunlop, Buffalo Color, Buffalo Coke, Ashland One and Two landfills (Manhattan Project), Ashland Oil Refinery, DuPont Yerkes, G.M., FORD, Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel, get the picture?

Hey, you guys aren't involved in some migratory bird secret radioactive tracer study program, are you? No, really, I'm seriious.

I think it would be now advisable to test the entire area of the soccer fields and the wildlife habitat. Wouldn't that be wise? Wouldn't it have been better to have the soils cleared and appropriate for these uses before it was transported and spread? Would it ever be a "good idea" to remove soils from the LOOW site for either a bird sanctuary or kids soccer fields (directly adjacent to each other)? I think not.

So, what we're really talking here is the separation of this dirt by a few yards, in the same area and on the same Artpark spoils pile plateau in Lewiston, NY--also separated by a few of your words, but because it can legitimately be said that there were two sources for the dirt in question, you have portrayed this information in a way to be interpreted as an A. O. K. on the habitat soils only. Were you trying to infer that there is a difference? Isn't this correct Jim?

I'm sorry, I also don't see how removing the Robert Moses Parkway now could possibly be more important to you (your words on numerous occasions) than the potential for Plutonium to be in Lewiston's drinking water supply. I just don't see that one. How many NHP or Niagara Frontier Wildlife Habitat Council members are from Lewiston, Youngstown, Ransomville, Porter, etc? Aren't you concerned for them? Their children?

You have written in the past Jim that I don't reach out and that I'm not "joining in," or "touching someone" and that sort of thing. You've even accused me of "not being a man." Your words.

When I do ask for things that could easily be gathered or lobbied for by you or your groups, the very same group(s) that damn well should be concerned about this, you state that I'm not organized, I should form "my own group" and all sorts of derogatory and demeaning remarks. You and your groups "have looked at this issue," you've stated in the past and they don't care to participate--even in concern for their own drinking water? Alrighty.

Then, you say that you have issues with me. Yes Jim, there are issues between us. Yours.

Now, I've asked, and you--your group(s?) have said that Pu in Niagara County drinking water is not an important enough issue for anyone to assist--even in areas that you(r) members are thoroughly able to do so-(Tim Henderson at Lewiston Water Dept. and ROLE, etc for instance)-and, that have the contacts to follow up upon. Why no motivation for this one is way beyond me.

Bottoms up and cheers, have a glass of tap water (no, not ON me, thanks).
You've done it again James, you've wasted my time.

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 13:02, 2005-10-04

Date: Tue Oct 4 3:40 AM, 2005

Hey Lou: Looks like there's a blow-hard by the lake with THAT guy.

NuclearLou · Senior Member

Jim Hufnagel writes:

"and since I'm told that Canadians have detected it in the Niagara River, there is good reason to think it does..."

In the above, J.H. makes reference to Plutonium being in both the soils of the old LOOW site in Lewiston-Porter (I first wrote about this in Artvoice, May 2001) and, the Plutonium detected years ago (1980s) by Environment Canada--that I connected together as being one-in-the-same and likely associated to the Pu found in the waters of the Niagara River and mouth of Lake Ontario. While I did not take the actual measurements, I was the first to make this association and on the record about it. You may want to check Scott's PodCast of the show with Dr. Janette Sherman, MD.,

Dialog_060705_-_Nuclear_Lewiston.mp3

or in the newspaper article: https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/nuclearlou/APuStoryWNYLOOWfrontPage.jpg

https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/nuclearlou/AYoungstownPuMap2.jpg

So Jim, you see, "you're told that Canadians have detected Plutonium"--because of my research. Please, try and not minimize or trivialize this work. Please, don't compliment me on the one hand and then do this sort of thing--somehow trying to minimize the importance of this "find" or failing to give it proper attribution. Aren't you a Lake Ontario resident and just downstream?

-- Edited by NuclearLou at 13:07, 2005-10-04