those prisoners are POWs , prisoners of war , they have some limited rights including food shelter and basic medical care - that is all ;

why is anyone seriously considering anything else ?   some of them are captured without uniforms behind the "lines" ,     which should relegate them to the status of "spy" or "undercover operative"  in which case they can be executed as per our own laws .  

       our people , when captured do not fare as well . 

there is no flip flop here , let them rot , in a tropical paradise , well fed and provided for  by  our tax dollars .    we are so inhumane .        

this is apples and oranges , it is not alright for a terrorist to just up and shoot anyone , American or not , uniformed or not .   that is murder , there are laws regarding it.

the prisoners in cuba are / were  captured during battle with american military , some with uniforms as per rules of war , some [most ?] without uniforms .   as such they are POWs or spies .

yes there is a difference .

Anyone care to have waffles this morning?

MIKEOF THE MOUNTAIN writes--"is not alright for a terrorist to just up and shoot anyone , American or not , uniformed or not ." "the prisoners in cuba are / were  captured during battle with american military , some with uniforms as per rules of war , some [most ?] without uniforms .   as such they are POWs or spies . " "yes there is a difference ."

In the above Mike writes something about a uniform or not. That's only true with an enemy combatant within the boundaries the USA. This does NOT apply for someone in another country to be in any kind of uniform. We, the United States can not go into another country and then determine who can be detained and or deported to another country for questionable questioning (torture) because they are uniformed or not. That can only be used for those who are physically within the US and not in a uniform and suspected-proven to have conducted treason, sabbotage or the like.

Then, there is the issue of taking American's from within the US of A and sending them to Gitmo for questioning and detention! Because they're in street clothing. Give it a break Mike. You sound like one of those old Japanese soldiers holed up on an South Pacific island in a cave decades after the hostilities ceased--shooting civilians from a cave and feeling patriotic towards Hirohito. The War is over Mike.

Not all of the prisoners in Cuba were captured in hostilities. Some were taken in the middle of the night from their family beds in the USofA. What about that white Gulfstream jet that supposedly wisks them away also in the middle of the night. Sound Stalin-ish, Gulag-esque?

Spies or POWS? Hmm. Let's see how the US historically handled those locally--If you are a German SPY and ardent Nazi espionage expert you are brought TO the USA. But, if you are a POW, you go to the agricultural fields around Ft. Niagara, Lewiston-Porter and then on alternate days you go work in the American chemical industry giving previously held foreign military secrets, then you're a POW in Niagara County. That's it! Eurica...Ft. Niagara was Gitmo before Gitmo was Gitmo. I bet the Arabs are being tortured in Cuba for their secrets about flat bread!

 

mike of the mountain wrote:

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arab religious fanatics that are not officially affiliated with the government of saudi arabia [allegedly] who travel abroad and kill and maim in the name of allah and osama san are not to be classed the same as either our military or the military of israel.

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Umm, OK, you need to stop listening the White House PR machine and actually THINK about what they say. When Bush says we're 'fighting the terrorists,' he really means the insurgency, which for the most part is just indigenous peoples. Farmers, businessmen, regular folks who no longer have a government to follow orders from. All they know is that a foreign army has invaded their homes and they are defending all they have left. Look up the American Revolution since you're not working at work, and see what King George (the original, I mean) referred to our army as. Read your history. These people have never given in to ANY foreign invaders. What makes us so special?

Why? Picture of a apple

Anonymous
Date: Mon Nov 14 9:22 AM, 2005
Views: 9


Quote | ReplyRE: More Flip Flopping

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Why? Picture of a apple



Anonymous
Date: Mon Nov 14 10:12 AM, 2005
Views: 2


Quote | ReplyRE: More Flip Flopping

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what is the 'American Religious Right'?

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Anonymous One is Dovey, Mike's cousin. Anonymous Two is Mike. I.P.'s are fun with the RIGHT program!

mike of the mountain wrote:

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those prisoners are POWs , prisoners of war , they have some limited rights including food shelter and basic medical care - that is all ; why is anyone seriously considering anything else ?  

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To answer your question, oh lofty one, most serious people can't recall when it was exactly that Congress voted on a declaration of war.

Hence the term "POW" is easily confused with the term "enemy combatant", who as we all know, are in cahoots with the "terrorists", the "Islamo-fascists" and the "Democrats".

 

mike of the mountain wrote:

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the goals of the war are clearly stated , when the goals are accomplished our military will return to the USA or go on to the next goal.

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Of course, you're right, Mike. The goals of the war were clearly stated, and they were achieved!

You remember "Mission Accomplished" undoubtedly, and our Commander in Thief strutting his stuff on the flight deck in the flight suit he opted to not soil in Southeast Asia.

The only reasonable goal remaining is to withdraw from the impossible situation in Iraq.

mike of the mountain wrote:

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if memory serves ; the goal was to remove the threat in iraq , then turn the reigns over to a democratic governement with a constitution , then leave .    most of the goal is accomplished ,    leaving before completion would be foolish , much sacrifice would  be wasted ....           of course i am right .  

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Not to be a pessimist, but that is impossible. You cannot cleanse the world of evil and live happily everafter. If that is Bush's plan, he's living in a fairy tale more grandiose than his Bible. Couldn't he just ask God for another flood? It wouldn't cost us millions of dollars a day to purge evil from Iraq and the place could use the water...

Of course you are deluded...

World domination ? destroy all evil ? , nope these  are not on the list of goals to accomplish in iraq , oops no i am mistaken , those are not the goals put forth by the Americans and our dwindling # of allies .

the goals of America are secular in nature .

Those are the goals of al qaeda , the people that brought you the events of 9/11/01 . these goals do not appear to be secular .... this is the watered down cnn version , which ommits the part about using iraq as a base to conquer the entire middle east and convert or murder all residents of the conquered countries and then conquering Israel .

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August 27, 2005

Al Qaeda in Iraq calls for violence, destruction of 'American empire'

"Al Qaeda in Iraq issues virulent manifesto: Group calls for violence, destruction of 'American empire,'" from CNN, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm and Eschwapp:

(CNN) -- Laying out its ideology in a broad manifesto, the group al Qaeda in Iraq -- which has been behind many of the worst attacks, beheadings and kidnappings in Iraq -- says the insurgency is in better shape than the United States acknowledges and vows to continue the insurgency and "destroy the American empire."

"Every now and then, the schoolboys of the Pentagon and the adolescents of the Black House keep blasting our ears with talks of pure arrogance and conviction saying, 'We will not leave Iraq until we accomplish our mission.' This desperate catchphrase that they keep repeating is used to make the public believe that the mujahedeens are in bad shape, as if they are begging the Americans, saying, 'Please Americans, leave Iraq,' " the group says in an e-book, an extensive document on the Internet.

"We vow by the name of God that we are determined to destroy the American empire," it says.

The book, filled with calls for violence and hate for all but "true Muslims" -- a group that it says does not include Shiites -- surfaced on an Islamic Web site this week....

The e-book includes numerous sections totaling dozens of pages, covering such topics as how the Quran justifies beheadings and why democracy is wrong....

Repeatedly, the book calls on Muslims to launch attacks against foreign forces in Iraq and people who cooperate with them.

"The basics of our faith revolve around not harming true Muslims and not shedding one single drop of Muslim blood because one drop of true Muslim blood shed amounts to the demise of this whole world. So why do we carry out operations in Iraq against the Americans and their aides in the (Iraqi) army and police? First, to please God, who orders us to carry on this jihad and to force the occupiers to pull out of the land," it says, vowing to "spread the light of justice and glory all over the world."

It cites "the glory that shines from our brothers, local and foreign fighters who left their countries, spouses and children and are sacrificing their blood for you to protect you and protect your families and honor, your women and children, forcing the occupiers to pull out of your country."

The document calls on Iraqi troops and police to turn their backs on the new elected government.

"You who betrayed Muslims and in humiliation became one of many collaborators, a servant under the command of the cross, we ask you to return to your Islamic instinct or cutting your neck will be your only punishment for your treason against your religion and your people."

It adds this warning: "Repent or else."

The group says its "doctrine and mission are clear and they can be summarized as our agreement to believe in and fight for the religion of God. We believe that those who follow these beliefs and the provisions of faith are true Muslims and anyone who denounces any of these beliefs and conditions is an infidel even if he still claims to be a Muslim."

It calls the Shiite faith "a confession of polytheism and rejectionism."

The document warns there will be no end to the insurgency. "The call for jihad goes on until doomsday, whether there is an imam calling for it or not."

The central image of the e-book is the group's logo -- a globe with an open book, presumably the Quran. Coming out of the center of the Quran are a spear, a Kalashnikov rifle, a hand with the pointer finger sticking up -- a symbol of unity -- and a banner reading, "There is no God but God; Mohammed is the messenger of God."

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so Christmas is not far off , be the first on your block to ask santa for one of these ! while supplies last ...

What Are You Waiting For!

Mindcrime wrote:

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 So the whole point of the CNN story was that al Qaeda hates us, and we hate them. They want to obliterate us, and we want to eradicate them. They've attacked, killed and tortured some of us, and we've attacked, killed and tortured some if them. They're following the orders of a mythic diety and we're following the orders of an evangelical president. How are we so different?

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weirdface ? indeed .

they are not following supposed orders from a "diety" [do you think they are fat ?] , they are following their Wahhabi handlers , who fudge the religion they have to suit their own needs and desires.

from a secular point of veiw America is out to destroy a group that has presented as it's stated goal the desire  to destroy America and the American way of life  .   if they had not attacked us and killed our people , we would not be chasing them down and killing them now. doom on them.

there is nothing in the religion of the POTUS that would expect or require him to form a "crusade" against the islamics / muslims  , this is not about religion from our perspective .  

unfolding as we type on the floors of congress vigorous debate rages as to whether or not we will continue seeking and destroying this enemy that has vowed our destruction as it's reason to exist ,    let us pray that the internal enemies of America do not prevail here .