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Post Info TOPIC: Debunking and character assasination


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Debunking and character assasination
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DEBUNKING is the tactic of character assasination and general credability attacks. See today's thread "New Approach," where there is no new approach, just the same reproaches and demeaning comments.


It should be interesting to note that our new poster has made only attack postings (28) and has even started several threads along this line.  This poster has been caught in multiple inaccuracies, inconsistencies and direct lies (Such as Scott shutting down this site--talked to him today) and their past knowledge of "Vera." (Hi Vera)!


This new poser has made numerous posts that are considered Trolling yet, makes numerous postings bemoaning that they are the ones being attacked and trolled. This is generally the case with a 'Debunker." This one seems especially adept and you are cautioned to read each post very carefully. This poster claimed to be new but then made statements of knowledge that could only have been gained on this site through long term participation--such as Scott, Vera and other comments.


ALL COMMENTS MADE BY NEW POSTERS Should be taken with a grain of salt until proven as a genuine interested party and not a Troll.


DEBUNKING


1. What the public doesn't know, we are not going to tell them.


2. Don't bother with the facts, our minds are made up.


3. If we can't attack the data, we will attack the person, it is much easier.


4. Do one's research by proclamaition, rather than investigation. It is much easier and most people won't know the difference.


PLEASE Search the Web for information about posters like this--Trolls and Debunking, Agent Provocateur, Character Assasins. All you need to do is look at some of these posts to see the tactic and agenda. Debunk the most dangerous to "your cause." I guess that must be me.


Question is--What's their cause?


 ARTICLE FOLLOWS FROM INDYMEDIA  --  THIS ISN'T ANYTHING NEW AND IS DONE ALL THE TIME



-- Edited by NuclearLou at 14:22, 2005-12-13

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"Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." Helen Keller "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."


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SPOTTING DISINFORMATION
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2002/12/38175.shtml
 
author: Diogenes



This is a handy reference tool for spotting trolls and other lower life forms. Given that Indy, and other independent open forums, are increasingly the targets of various members of the sell-out classes this is a nice reference for tuning up your BS detector.



Spotting Disinformation - The rules of the "Game"

Courtesy of   Walt  July 15, 1998

*  1.  Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.

*  2.  Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the "How dare you!" gambit.

*  3.  Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such "arguable rumors". If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a "wild rumor" which can have no basis in fact.

*  4.  Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

*  5.  Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

*  6.  Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to -the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

*  7.   Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

*  8.  Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough "jargon" and "minutiae" to illustrate you are "one who knows", and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

*  9.   Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

*  10.   Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

*  11.  Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the "high road" and "confess" with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, "just isn't so." Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later. Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for "coming clean" and "owning up" to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.

*  12.   Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

*  13.   Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards with an apparent deductive logic in a way that forbears any actual material fact.

*  14.  Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best for items qualifying for rule 10.

*  15.  Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place. (Can you say Rush Limbaugh - sure you can - just don't choke.)

*  16.  Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can "argue" with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

*  17.  Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

*  18.   Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

*  19.  False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

*  20.  Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

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"Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." Helen Keller "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
Anonymous

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Lou, you hit that right on the mark. Talk about transparent, it couldn't be more obvious. Now your friend has recruited a few of your previous followers. I hope they're happy with what they get. I noticed that your new friend has "enlisted" the help of their "friend" who is well versed in this kind of thing. Now that's the laugh of the day. Wait till they satrt giving further "diagnosis." It looks like you're doomed.  I hope that they sign a real name, like Doctor or something like that and can be checked out. Lou, I'm afraid you're dealing with a professional hack--you were warned that when you got too close to something that they would come out of the woodwork. You must be on to something pretty big from the looks of the attacks. There it is.


The others, I can understand. I can understand your frustration and theirs. After all, you have lost loved ones. I doubt that the new player can say the same.


Best of luck and know that we are watching this.


Best wishes and love,


Robert and Monica Wharton



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Anonymous

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http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=37842162&Mytoken=B04AF92C-0363-4DDB-9F4E40D12E929E602438731375


 


Please see Wednesday 12/9/05 5:32 AM


Also note that as of today Scott is keeping but considering some changes to the site. No I'm not the one lying here.



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Anonymous wrote:


http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=37842162&Mytoken=B04AF92C-0363-4DDB-9F4E40D12E929E602438731375   Please see Wednesday 12/9/05 5:32 AM Also note that as of today Scott is keeping but considering some changes to the site. No I'm not the one lying here.

Sorry that was me.

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"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance my deride it, but in the end, there it is." Winston Churchill


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*NOTE EDIT TIME--M n B--Look up .


I didn't even have the chance to answer you before the above post was INSERTED. I AM so sorry for this!


-----------------------here's the original message----------- ;)


Mon and Bob: Thanks for your observations and comments. Right during the Holidays, right then...


You were right about all of this. I guess with your business background you should know. It seems as if this is getting just as "hot" as you've described in the past and it's exactly what Joyce and Dave both said too. This could be SAIC or URS Corp.. Don't know if it's a local thing (lots of enemies with this subject--you know), or if the attention of the others is finally coming home to roost. so to speak.


I do know that the URS Corp. (deep black budget projects and Area-51 are now occupying a Buffalo office and are working at the LOOW site and elsewhere!! All news documented.  VERY TELLING! Search the name Jon Turley and this company name. YIKES!


With what happened a year or so ago with the reclassification of our extremely dangerous African Radium wastes from the old silo, it looks like the government has gone back once again on their word to eventually remove this stuff. 


The burial is now known to be leaking out of the storage structure (basements old mil. buildings) and into the surrounding environment. This down-class of the most radioactive K-65 wastes went by without a single mention from the groups that I now know to be full of ringers. Look up^.  They protested phantom PCBs from the Hudson River, meanwhile the EPA had already said that the waste was never destined to come here in the first place. Kind of like they did originally with the demo of that silo while Love Canal was happening. I've recently heard from LG. 


If URS, SAIC and the 'others' are here in the area, then I guess what you've said is in fact happening. Stay tuned, especially to the recent posts and those coming soon. They are going to be GREAT!


Thanks again for the support and the offer.


Warmest and my best,


LR



-- Edited by NuclearLou at 21:51, 2005-12-13

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"Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." Helen Keller "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."


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So Starlight, I see you came over to this thread. Would you mind not dogging me around.? PLEASE. I haven't posted to your threads, please afford me a similar consideration. JEESH!


I won't say that you have lied. I also won't say that I have placed several of your posts from here and the Gazette side-by-each for juxtaposition, and there are several contradictory statements. I also won't say that you previously seemed to not know me and asked how to get to this site, that you say you just joined and didn't lie, nor will I say that the very fact you mentioned Sammy the Sea Lion is very dated and an admission that you have had some previous contact. I won't say that is Trolling and I won't say that this certainly seems agenda driven. No conspiracy there. No, I won't say that either.  Please do me a favor and reread this first paragraph. Then, I'd appreciate you keeping your comments seperate. Thanks a bunch.  NuclearLou



-- Edited by NuclearLou at 21:59, 2005-12-13

__________________
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." Helen Keller "...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
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