Unjust War

Mindcrime · Guru

Unjust War

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

There have been other resisters now and then, not that I can think of any right now.

The main reason others have not followed suit, I would presume, is that 20 years busting rocks is a heavy price to pay for acting on your political convictions. Remember those in the military are sworn to follow orders, not second-guess the country's leadership.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Mindcrime wrote:

"Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith faced a court martial after declaring that the Iraq war was illegal and refusing to return for his third tour of duty there, The Guardian reports. He has been charged with four counts of "disobeying a lawful command." But Kendall-Smith, a decorated medical officer in the Royal Air Force, says that his study of the recently revealed evidence about the lies, distortions and manipulations used to justify the invasion has convinced him that both the war and the occupation are "manifestly illegal." Thus any order arising from this criminal action is itself an "unlawful command," The Sunday Times reports. In fact, the RAF's own manual of law compels him to refuse such illegal orders, Kendall-Smith insists." Story Link Why have none of our own military men & women stepped up like this? "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

his study is flawed , his allegations are un founded and un proved .

there is no "occupation"

our military is voluntary , except for the national guard people that were only in to get free college the people in the US military are there because they believe in what they are doing .

John Villella · Member

mike of the mountain wrote:

our military is voluntary , except for the national guard people that were only in to get free college the people in the US military are there because they believe in what they are doing .

Mike, I have a question and please don't take it the wrong way. Did you ever serve?

Yes, we have a voluntary military, but to make a statement that the people in the guard are there to get free college money is a bit unfair. It's a good thing we have so many people in the guard. They have performed many tasks for us, stateside and abroad. College money is and has been a benefit to the people who have volunteered, regardless if they are active fulltime or guard members. When I served I had two choices, one pay back my college loans or receive "X" amount of money to be used for college. If you look at the requirements you will find that the amount of time required by the guard is equivalent to being fulltime for the money allotted to time served.

To make a statement that the people in the guard don’t believe in there mission is somewhat beyond belief. People volunteer for the guard or to be full timers for various reasons and to make that statement – shame on you! There is no difference in training, both go to basic training together and both train together for a specific MOS (job). Once the 18 or so weeks have been completed they get to go home and back to their lives. However, in recent years most guard units have been heavily worked with missions. Look at the Niagara Airbase at amount of missions those units have participated in.

Either way I am glad there are still individuals willing to volunteer. They are great people and do a great job.

-- Edited by John Villella at 00:11, 2005-12-16

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

John Villella wrote:

mike of the mountain wrote: our military is voluntary , except for the national guard people that were only in to get free college the people in the US military are there because they believe in what they are doing

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i was not attempting to imply that all the National Guard people were in it for the college funds , some were and were very vocal about not wanting to participate in combat operations when their units were called up .

of course the National Guard is also Voluntary , people who participate must believe in what they are doing as well .

there was / is no attempt to belittle the quality of the National Guard or any part of the American military .

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Yes, we have a voluntary military, but to make a statement that the people in the guard are there to get free college money is a bit unfair. It's a good thing we have so many people in the guard.

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:
his study is flawed , his allegations are un founded and un proved . there is no "occupation" our military is voluntary That's your opinion, not a fact. Based on available evidence, I'd agree. While it is a moot point, since I'm here, for a soldier in Iraq, it's a very pertinent. There is far too much evidence to suggest this war happened for the wrong reasons.

except for the national guard people that were only in to get free college the people in the US military are there because they believe in what they are doing .

How is that statement not belittling guardsmen? They can't have principles AND go to college? You directly say that a lot of guardsmen are there for free cash, not for their country. And since the bulk of our forces in this war ARE guardsmen and not career soldiers, you ought to show a little more respect for the people fighting it.

Nitrogen_Widget · Senior Member

As far as I can remember, the military recruiter's that called me never mentioned a single thing about serving my country or being a patriot.

They talked up the money for college & potential salaries of jobs I could be qualified for after their training. How I could use my college degree to leverage an officer's position & other too good to be true career opportunities. Recruiter's always gloss over possible military action or anything that involves you possibly defending your country & being shot at when trying to get you to sign up?

Why is that? Why do they seem to forget to mention the primary function of the military?

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Mindcrime wrote:

mike of the mountain wrote: his study is flawed , his allegations are un founded and un proved . there is no "occupation" our military is voluntary That's your opinion, not a fact. Based on available evidence, I'd agree.

You directly say that a lot of guardsmen are there for free cash,[ no i did not say "a lot" , i dont know the percentages ]not for their country. And since the bulk of our forces in this war ARE guardsmen and not career soldiers, you ought to show a little more respect for the people fighting it.

i never intended to show disrespect to any one in the military .

culled from here http://www.notinourname.net/troops/mejia-17mar04.htm

here is one example of what i was referring to , there are others ;

Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia, 28, of Miami, Florida joined the Army in 1995 as a way to get college assistance and in search of new experiences. Following a three-year hitch with the Regular Army, he joined the Florida National Guard partly because he was promised tuition assistance at Florida's state universities. Mejia, a Nicaraguan citizen, had moved permanently to the US with his mother when he was eighteen years old. He is a permanent resident who holds a "green card."

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i have no problem with our military providing tuition benefits for anyone serving their country , but if participation in combat happens to be asked of them , then imo they must follow orders . it is not acceptable to sign up for the benefits and then refuse to serve in combat if it is reguired .

Phantom · Veteran Member

But the guy in this story is a career soldier, and an officer, going on his third tour. Should his opinion count more than a temporary soldier? Should it count less?

Do only the opinions of generals count in military matters? If so, why have ranks at all? Why not have one general and everyone else can be a private... If we want blindly-obedient automotons instead of thinking human beings in combat, it's the best way to go.

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

Phantom wrote:

Why not have one general and everyone else can be a private... If we want blindly-obedient automotons instead of thinking human beings in combat, it's the best way to go.

Meet the blindly-obedient automaton. Meet the Predator.

Mindcrime · Guru

Didn't one of those fire a missle into the Pentagon?

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Mindcrime wrote:

Didn't one of those fire a missle into the Pentagon?

no , a predator can not carry a large enough payload to inflict that much damage .

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predators are not manned but they are "flown" by a person somewhere , possibly in washington dc with a satellite connection ; the ultimate video game .

starlight · Veteran Member

Mike, I think Mindcrime is referring to the theory that it was not a plane that hit the Pentagon on 9-11. There are several web sites that insist it was not a plane.

Date: Sun Dec 18 9:03 AM, 2005

if you follow mike on the mts post you will get a feeling he just posts for the sake of see his post. he seldom brings facts and he is always right and everyone else is wrong.

starlight · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

if you follow mike on the mts post you will get a feeling he just posts for the sake of see his post. he seldom brings facts and he is always right and everyone else is wrong.

Gee Mike, it looks like someone is following you. Maybe you should post some sort of, oh I don't know, friendly warning.

Date: Sun Dec 18 10:26 PM, 2005

Either your opinion ,or it might be that others see him for the way he is. Do ya think?
suz

Date: Sun Dec 18 10:47 PM, 2005

John Villella
Member
Posts: 12
Date: Thu Dec 15 11:59 PM, 2005
Views: 95
RE: Unjust War

mike of the mountain wrote:

our military is voluntary , except for the national guard people that were only in to get free college the people in the US military are there because they believe in what they are doing .

Mike, I have a question and please don't take it the wrong way. Did you ever serve?
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WHY NO ANSWER? In one previous post mikeofthemountain said something about his being "blown up" in some military action or maneuveur an than he was dishanerably discharged and sent home becasue he was playing with the boom-boom clip[things when he should have been sitting on his hands, or something like that. Is this correct mr?

What is rong with it Mr Mountain. will you answer S(tarlight)Hughes friend Mr. Villa's question whether you served in our us military or not? theyres?
Youve made dozen posts and ignored (like plague) the original question like he was asking a little red faced boy "where his hands just where....!" (please wash then). he

Mr. Villa may have wanted to be polite , but dammenitalltohell with all of you'r B .S . prokillwardeathdestructionyodeadbrownskinusaallthewaytojobsinmalaysia.dogblessaAmericabuyamericansoicandriveanaudiandthewifeavolvo sociopathic rhetoric coward crap, ANSWER THE QUESTION! DID YOU SERVE IN THE US ARMED FORCES OR NOT Milk of the Mouton?? What hapend wit that the hole thing?
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jspeer · Guru

Ask again Anonymous....but this time with a name.