I don't see anything wrong with singing at school.  I thinks it's great an the kids enjoy do so.  I bet many of us posting did the same thing a few years ago!

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to everyone

Jim Hufnagel wrote:

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kspeer wrote: I went to my son's school Christmas concert last night. There was absolutely no question that it was for "Christmas." They sang Silent Night and first quoted a passage from the bible. I'm not concerned with a Christmas carol or Christmas tree, but quoting biblical verses at a public school function is clearly "over the line". However, if the taxpayers of Lockport, Birmingham and Topeka don't mind it, I guess I don't either.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         -- Edited by Jim Hufnagel at 14:44, 2005-12-16

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biblical verses,Are way over the line why?MERRY CHRISTMAS,MERRY CHRISTMAS,MERRY CHRISTMAS.............JESUS NEVER FAILS.

Jim Hufnagel wrote:

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My daily prayer: "Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers. Amen."

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kspeer wrote:

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People can quote as much biblical stuff as they want to me. It doesn't mean I will suddenly start going to church. I think of the bible as a nice story filled with some values and morals. It certainly won't hurt me or my family to hear it once in awhile. We know we're good people, we don't need a minister to tell us!

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You have a choice about subscribing to a particular religion, going to a church or donating money to a religious cause. You do not have a choice about paying taxes to support the public school system. Therefore prayer in public schools is inherently and inescapably coercive.

Merry Christmas to all. 

The world would be much better if public schools and public institutions did not purposely exclude Christmas celebration.

We can only hope.

kspeer wrote:

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People can quote as much biblical stuff as they want to me. It doesn't mean I will suddenly start going to church. I think of the bible as a nice story filled with some values and morals. It certainly won't hurt me or my family to hear it once in awhile. We know we're good people, we don't need a minister to tell us!

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"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propogation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical;... No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever..." - Thomas Jefferson

The Supreme Court has held over and over again on the religion and school issue. It would be futile for me to cut and paste and summarize the voluminous body of law surrounding church and state. However, to summarize, the Court has found that when Christianity makes its appearance in an educational setting in conjunction with other religions, or as a "cultural" presentation rather than a "devotional" one, it's ok.

I think the general interpretation is that Christmas carols and trees are "cultural" in nature and therefore tolerable. However, quotation of the bible in parallel with a school assembly wholly relating to the Christmas holiday is and should be considered devotional.

To answer your post above, kspeer, no, people cannot "quote as much biblical stuff as they want" to me, especially when I'm compelled to pay for the school it's taking place in, and send my child there (if I had one).

What it all comes down to, I believe, is that like the bible says, none of us have faith the size of a mustard seed. That means that deep down inside there are nagging questions such as,

 "What if one of the other world religions is really right and my religion is wrong?",

"If there is a God, why does he allow so much suffering of children on this planet?",

"Why does Christianity insist God is a male?",

"What about people who lived in prehistory, long before Christ's or even his Father's message? Are they all in hell?",

or even, "What about the native in deepest New Guinea who never came in contact with a missionary. Is that person damned for all eternity?"

The nagging doubts are accentuated when one looks around and sees perfectly happy, well-adjusted people who couldn't care less about going through life with these burdens. Throughout history it has been necessary to force these people, well, if not to believe the same beliefs, then to at least bow down before them.

Therefore it isn't enough insinuate Christianity into a public school. It now becomes necessary to go on the internet and crow about it.

Like Rev. Wayne Dent always makes a point of having prayer services in the Lockport City Hall a couple of times a year.

Neither the people of Lockport nor their elected leaders seem to know much about separation of Church and State.

quoted from Jackie Mason ,  a wise Jewish comedian .

If you can, I encourage you to tune in to our WOMANTalk edition of the show today with Audrey Russo as we discuss the latest on the war on Christmas.

One thing that just blesses my socks off are the Jews who are standing up for Christmas! Have you seen Jackie Mason on Fox News yet? - Jews for It's Ok to Say Merry Christmas - speaking out against the de-Christianization of Christmas.

"Merry Christmas!" New York's Jewish mascot, comedian Jackie Mason is saying on the streets of that great city.

"Enough of the 'Happy holidays!'Is this how you pay back the people who gave us the freedom to be Jews in America? The Christians are the ones who gave us the right to be free."

"We have the right to pornography. Erections are allowed to be mentioned every day!But you can't say, 'Merry Christmas!'"

Jackie Mason was joined by well known and esteemed Jewish leaders, radio talkers Rabbi Aryeh Spero (who we just had on the show)and Barry Farber, and Don Feder, who we plan to have on after the first of the year.


Hear the show (See 12/16/05)

On the December 2 edition of The O’Reilly Factor, host Bill O’Reilly featured comedian Jackie Mason as a guest to discuss the “war on Christmas.” Mason said: “I’m telling you that the people who are making these complaints represent nobody but themselves. UCLA [sic] types, anti-religionists, secularists is what you talk about all the time. They’re people who have a guilty conscience about anything they might do that’s dirty or off-color or vulgar or obscene.”

Mason was presumably referring to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and not the University of California-Los Angeles.

Mason continued: “You can’t stop a rap singer from telling people to kill every Jew in the world or be gentile or be a short person or be homosexual, everybody.” Then he declared: “The Ku Klux Klan is allowed to march and they’re allowed to holler ‘Ku Klux Klan,’ but God forbid you had a Christmas tree in front of it. They wouldn’t be allowed. You can call the Ku Klux Klan, but if they said ‘Merry Christmas,’ they’d be wiped out.”

Mason then said, “The ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and they hate anything that’s respectable or decent.”

Mason is an advisory board member of Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation, which purports to offer “a Jewish response to anti-Christian bias in the news media, entertainment, government and the culture” and has expressed support for the fight against the “war on Christmas.” The group’s advisory board also includes David Horowitz, Republican activist Barbara Ledeen, radio hosts Michael Medved and Barry Farber, and columnists Jeff Jacoby and Mona Charen. Mason has co-written, with attorney and fellow Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation advisory board member Raoul Felder, articles for conservative outlets such as Jewish World Review, The American Spectator, and The Washington Times.

From the December 2 edition of Fox News’ The O’Reilly Factor:

O’REILLY: But we had a poll this week: 90 percent of Americans, 90 percent celebrate Christmas. But somehow, somebody has intimidated the CEOs of Sears and Wal-Mart and a lot of these other places. Who are these people?

MASON: First of all, there’s no constituency for it. If you — I’m telling you that the people who are making these complaints represent nobody but themselves. UCLA [sic] types, anti-religionists, secularists is what you talk about all the time. They’re people who have a guilty conscience about anything they might do that’s dirty or off-color or vulgar or obscene. Is there something wrong with a country that pornography is so popular and if, God forbid, if you question the rights of — to disseminate porn, right away it’s freedom of speech? You’re allowed to do all the pornography you want. You can’t challenge it; it’s freedom of speech. Rap singers tell you how to kill people day and right. You’ve been doing it on your show all the time.

O’REILLY: Right.

MASON: You can’t stop a rap singer from telling people to kill every Jew in the world or be gentile or be a short person or be homosexual, everybody. You know why? Because it’s freedom of speech. But if you want to say something good, talk about love and brotherhood by recognizing Christ as the savior and everybody wants to enjoy the merriment, all this is not allowed. The Ku Klux Klan is allowed to march and they’re allowed to holler “Ku Klux Klan,” but God forbid you had a Christmas tree in front of it. They wouldn’t be allowed. You can call the Ku Klux Klan, but if they said “Merry Christmas,” they’d be wiped out.

O’REILLY: But there has — there has to be a power behind this. I think it’s the George Soros crew. You know?

MASON: These are sick people. See, there’s — somehow it’s a popular thing. It’s in now to be — to hate religion. It’s in now to be hip, to be a swinger because they’re living a dirty, filthy, obscene, vulgar life, and they’re guilt-ridden about it. So any connection with religion somehow feels like an interference to their lifestyle. So they want to eliminate religion; so they shouldn’t feel dirty.

So the Christians are up in arms over Target and Wal-Mart having big banners that say Happy Holidays' or 'Seasons Greetings.' All I can say is...What a bunch of selfish bastards you are.

Here's a short list of the other winter holidays: Kwanzaa, Chanukuh, Ramadan, Saturnalia, Long Night, Boxing Day, Leanaea, Bodhi Day, Chinese New Year, Inti Raymi, Yule, Festivus, Day of Osiris, Shabe-Yalda, and even if you ignore all these, Christmas is still sandwiched between Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Hence the phrase, "Happy Holidays."

Why must you insist that Christmas is the only holiday (Holy Day) that should be celebrated? Someone who says Happy Holidays isn't excluding Christmas, they're including all the others and being more inclusive and worldly for doing so. Just 'cause I didn't mention your religion by name doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a twist. What if I wished you a 'Blessed Yule?' Would you be offended because I didn't mention your holiday and focused on my own?

To say there is no constituency behind this nefarious effort reminds me of another movement against free-speech in this country. Remember BoobGate? When Janet Jackson accidentally offended America during the Superbowl? It turned out that a pious few, (4 or 5 people) turned in 98% of the complaints to the FCC. As a result, fines skyrocketed. Why do you care what a store does anyway? Isn't Christmas about the birth of Jesus and not money-driven commercialism and greed? Why don't you just say Happy Birthday and stop being so damned pompous every December 25th?