MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Date: Sun Dec 18 5:05 PM, 2005

RE: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Date: Sun Dec 18 7:53 PM, 2005

This is the test used to determine if the "Establishment Clause" has been violated. I'm not sure it has based on the explanation here.

The "Lemon test"

The Court's decision in this case established the "Lemon test", which details the requirements for United States legislation concerning religion. It consists of three prongs:

The government's action must have a legitimate secular purpose;
The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion; and
The government's action must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of the government and religion.

If any of these three prongs is violated, the government's action is deemed unconstitutional under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_Test

Jim Hufnagel · Senior Member

It's seems like so much of that would be open to interpretation, more so than the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Better to err on the side of caution, and not allow bible verses or prayer in public schools.

Unless you want to have Wiccan ceremonies and Solstice parties as part of Homecoming.

Mindcrime · Guru

One final word on this, because I had to stare at a "Jesus Is The Reason For The Season" bumper sticker for 5 minutes today...

I have nothing against Jesus, or His teachings, or anything else He did. But He's not why Christmas lands on December 25th. 3 or 4 millenia ago, most of northern Europe had long celebrated the Celtic (or pagan, if you prefer) holy day in late December. The winter solstice, one of four 'fire festivals' held throughout the year, lands on December 21st, by our calender.

2000 years ago, when Rome was crushing and conquering every nation it could think of (in the name of democracy ), they forced people to convert to their religious preference, Christianity. But they had a hard time getting people to stop celebrating their long established festivals. So they sprinkled a little holy water on the ancient celtic traditions and called the winter solsitce Christs' birthday. The harvest festival became Halloween, Jesus was ressurected on the spring equinox, etc. In fact, you'll find most of our holidays have celtic origins.

So the real reason for the season is pagans. Blessed Yule...

Jim Sacco · Senior Member

Mindcrime wrote:

One final word on this, because I had to stare at a "Jesus Is The Reason For The Season" bumper sticker for 5 minutes today... I have nothing against Jesus, or His teachings, or anything else He did. But He's not why Christmas lands on December 25th. 3 or 4 millenia ago, most of northern Europe had long celebrated the Celtic (or pagan, if you prefer) holy day in late December. The winter solstice, one of four 'fire festivals' held throughout the year, lands on December 21st, by our calender. 2000 years ago, when Rome was crushing and conquering every nation it could think of (in the name of democracy ), they forced people to convert to their religious preference, Christianity. But they had a hard time getting people to stop celebrating their long established festivals. So they sprinkled a little holy water on the ancient celtic traditions and called the winter solsitce Christs' birthday. The harvest festival became Halloween, Jesus was ressurected on the spring equinox, etc. In fact, you'll find most of our holidays have celtic origins. So the real reason for the season is pagans. Blessed Yule...

MC,

I heard a similiar story about Christmas, but with a different perspective. The early catholic church decided to celebrate the birth of Christ (Christ's Mass) at the time of the winter solace celebrated by the Pagans to lessen the religious persecution put upon them.

Christmas is celebrated over twelve days ending with the Epiphany on January 6. The "Twelve Days of Christmas" is a symbolic song they sung to also minimize on the persecution. I cannot name what each verse was for in the song, but "my true love" is God, and he gave us "A partidge in a Pear Tree" which is Jesus.

Merry Christmas,

Jim Sacco

jspeer · Guru

That's pretty cool, Jim.

Jim Sacco · Senior Member

I do have some paper describing the meaning of the 12 days of Christmas, and what each day stands for. My daughter got it when she was in elementary school at DeSales Catholic School. I should look for it.