Progress In Iraq?

nuclearlou · Senior Member

RE: Progress In Iraq?

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

mad Mike of the Mountain: You didn't even bother to post my original question asked and posted for help to the professionals.

out of common courtesy ; i also did not post the parts of the thread where the replys to you from the professionals at Radsafe were extremely unflattering to yourself , for which you fail to thank me ? and i still dont link them .

  Further, could you have ANY IDEA of who contacted me about this offline?

no , how could i know that , so unless you want to keep it a secret or have curious or interested people go searching through the thread for it , post it .    what ever , it is it is irrelevent to my post above

.nuclearlou wrote:

what ever , it is it is irrelevent to my post above ......... Ummm, like I kind of, think, you , might be , er...yes, I agree, umm, yes, your posts are irrelevant. Hey but there's good news....POTUS SUCKED Again tonight. Still no comment about BAD POTUS Saddling us with the African wastes in Lewiston- Porter

it seems to be your opinion that the duty of the current POTUS is to solve the problems created be the previous Demoncrat administrations ? have you considered the possibility that he wanted to keep the waste out of the hands of the bad guys ?

it was not my choice to put the problems in the ground , but the professional experts that make the decisions seem to think they are doing the correct thing , remember the thread from earlier in this thread ?      http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/0406/msg00288.html

...Mike of the Misinformation is all for leaving them behind for mine and your grandchildren to clean up. Yeah, real BAD POTUS and not so good                 Did you even graduate?

oh yes , and i am working every day , are you ?

nuclearlou · Senior Member

There is no real "progress." Now, only the "Spoils of War." See bottom of this page.

mike of the mountain
Senior Member
Posts: 343
Date: Wed Feb 1 11:51 PM, 2006
Views: 5

Quote | Reply
RE: Progress In Iraq?

mad Mike of the Mountain: You didn't even bother to post my original question asked and posted for help from these "professionals."

Mike says--
[out of common courtesy ; i also did not post the parts of the thread where the replys to you from the professionals at Radsafe were extremely unflattering to yourself , for which you fail to thank me ? and i still dont link them .]

Sure you did..Mr. liar...
Mike said he didn't but he SURE DID..liar, liar pants on fire.. You are encouraged to go and read this stuff..

-And why "thank me very much" again? You know nothing of courtesy, common or otherwise. It seems genetic. You did make the link ..."out of common courtesy" even though you say you didn't.. AHmmm. Actually, thank you for that. Contradicted yourself again in only one paragraph this time (quick) and now I would like for people to go look at this mind-numbing corporatism industrial safety and health "dialog" (think Silkwood). Hmm..

-Further, could you have any idea of who contacted me about this offline?

[no , how could i know that , so unless you want to keep it a secret or have curious or interested people go searching through the thread for it , post it . what ever , it is it is irrelevent to my post above ]

-Nothing I post is "irrelevent" -- As you and your's came here via LD telephone calls, word-of-mouth restaurant worker alerts, smoke signals, beating drums (looking for me and myself in this town) offering your kind of "help" and claptrap.. Oh, and thanksyou myselfyouto in deed very . much BTW (huh? Oh, I think I've got this now...A form of PigLatin or MicLatin.)

[what ever , it is it is irrelevent to my post above ......... ]

-Ummm, like I kind of,think, you it is it is mightbe , er...yes it is itis , I agree, umm, yes, -your posts are irrelevant . But Hay-there's is good news....POTUS SUCKED Again last -night.

-You Still have no comment about BAD POTUS FOREVER Saddling us with the African Uranium Radium-226 wastes in --Lewiston- Porter, New York, and I really don't care about who WAS to blame...what did HE just do to US?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll631.xml FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 631 (Republicans in roman; Democrats in italic; Independents underlined) H R 2754 YEA-AND-NAY 18-Nov-2003 4:59 PM QUESTION: On Agreeing to the Conference Report BILL TITLE: Energy and Water Appropriations, FY 2004 ------------------------------------------------ SEC. 312. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the material in the concrete silos at the Fernald uranium processing facility currently managed by the Department of Energy and the ore processing residual materials in the Niagara Falls Storage Site subsurface waste containment structure managed by the United States Army Corps of Engineers under the Formerly Utilized Sites Remedial Action Program shall be considered `byproduct material' as defined by section 11e.(2) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2014(e)(2)). The Nuclear Regulatory Commission or an Agreement State, as appropriate, shall regulate the material as `11e.(2) by-product material' for the purpose of disposition of the material in an NRC-regulated or Agreement State-regulated facility.

-No, it is not "irrelevant." PA-leaze!

[ it seems to be your opinion that the duty of the current POTUS is to solve the problems created be the previous Demoncrat administrations ? have you considered the possibility that he wanted to keep the waste out of the hands of the bad guys ? ]

-OMG! NO. That had nothing to do with this. OMG. LOL. The terror card--ALL DRINK!

-"It seems to be my opinion" that the DUTY OF POTUS is to protect us first here on our own SOIL and to protect our national resources, to keep and fulfill promises (and made to Niagara County by the very nature of our major contribution and sacrifice locally during war time you know, that other one a real long time ago) by the US government (like everything else that they've abrogated) in the past, AND, to NOT ALLOW legacy government projects and deadly wastes left in secrecy--and for profit but supposedly for the good of the whole country (at the time)... waste materials left behind that continue to cripple and kill us here today and everyday. Get that, or hang your head.

[ it was not my choice to put the problems in the ground , but the professional experts that make the decisions seem to think they are doing the correct thing , remember the thread from earlier in this thread ? http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/0406/msg00288.html ]

-But it IS your choice to do this kind of distractive, destructive thing and to continuously cause disruption and problems offering no genuine help at all, like you first stated was the truth when YOU contacted me a year ago?

-YOU Misrepresented yourself(ves) to me from the start. The "professional experts" as you call them, are mainly industrial health and lesser folks that are actively-Financially vested in the "MAKING" and "USE" of these materials and the industry itself--including weapons designers and their labs, oil exploration companies and other energy giants. Go look again. You have no idea why I made those posts or what half of them mean.

-Mikey, you're doing it -- seriously contradicting yourself, as you cannot simaltaneously claim in one post to understand this issue, and then not to mention that there were these two distinct positions--both in the nuclear industry and in the environmentally minded science community--That these two opinions on radiation safety, and what use to be known as RAD"Safe" have been dramatically reevaluated to lesser and lesser "allowable" amounts...
BEIR VII Report, that you yourself have previously referenced and posted.
BEIR VII Report Comments NO SAFE DOSE!
How and why does Mike keep missing or ignoring this?

-YOU also haven't mentioned that on the RAD"Safe" board there are those that think we should all get MORE RADIATION--look it up over there! They believe in something called Hormesis...A radiological Eugenics program at best and Genocide at the worst. YIKES!! OMG. Keep quoting from those guys over there. LOL..

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 20:56, 2006-02-02

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 21:01, 2006-02-02

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:

..it seems to be your opinion that the duty of the current POTUS is to solve the problems created be the previous Demoncrat administrations ?

In all fairness, Bush has solved some of Clinton's goofs. Most important of all was that pesky Budget Surplus that Clinton spent 5 years creating. Bush had that little zinger fixed in the first 2 years. And it's getting more fixed as the days go by...

pcguy · Veteran Member

I find it interesting that Bush seems bent on running large deficits when one of the founding principles of Republicanism is smaller government, and a smaller propensity to spend taxpayer monies. At least that's what they have professed in the past....

Does it really matter democrat, republican, neither party acts in the interest of average citizens..... I won't even get into the implications of his supreme court justice choices.

So far Dubya is really just double dumb.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

What say you about BS POTUS leaving us with this African Uranium Radium waste that WAS NOT FOUND in Iraq but rather, right here in Niagara County? What say you? who put this African Uranium Radium waste there in the first place ?

Do you really think that the "Risk driver of Radium-226" is a good thing to leave behind? Was this "well advised" as you claim? i did not claim it , i linked to a group of professionals that did claim it http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0406/threads.html

can you citeferences? National Academy of Sciences opinion? ANY OPINION from science that supports this being done to us IN SECRECY? Can you justify this in any fashion or manner?

none the less;

the site shown below has been selected for remediation

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/2005/August/Day-05/i15503.htm

why moab and not the LOOW ? i dont know , i will guess that the "expert professionals" in the field were persuaded that it was the correct and proper solution for that site . the same laws apply to both sites or do you claim something else ?

This secretly pushed POTUS decision is called capricious, unilateral, arbitrary (he's no scientist), just ill conceived and executed. Did you know that the Lewiston "containment" facility (the NFSS-Niagara Falls Storage Site) contains not much--that's the US Court saying it's leaking (not me) and what does it contain (mainly)..?..well, looky there--it's that pesky "RISK DRIVER" of Radium-226. Did you know that that's one of the most dangerous of radioactive materials and or why? OH, but because it's BS Bad POTUS, some ill advised people think this was OK, including you? i think you and i ishould defer to those who have the degrees and the credentials to make the decision , i see you have shifted gears from Pu to Radium 226 based on my links ? or was it sunspots that prompted the change ? although you speak poorly of the people at Radsafe they do have the credentials to validate their point of veiw , i defer to their expertise , and you ...... what say you ? http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0406/threads.html

bottom line , same EPA same DOE same laws similar waste in the ground , MOAB gets remediated , LOOW does not , the same people reveiwed the facts and made the choice to remidiate MOAB and not LOOW , why ?

green is the color of the day , green is the color of envy .

nuclearlou · Senior Member

Hey there--last couple of ?? for now--That have gone unanswered..
Mike, where did you graduate HS? Did you ever serve in the US military? What hide you? Why the dodge?

Envy? LOL. Of what?

Please don't be envious of me. That's just embarrassing! Thanks though, flattering if that's what you meant--Thanks but still not too good.

Green is also the color of that Ergot that makes people hallucinate and burn witches too. Remember? Envy is a mortal sin isn't it?

I thought you said you were Christian, oh, that's right, all I have to do is look around your posts about burnt children, rodents and Christian Authorized "Killing-vs-Murder."

I'm finding the absolute contradictions (in your character) to be rather entertaining now. You've chosen to not be honest with me Mike, tell the nice people. You said you'd "help" and that wasn't true at all. Look at your post from above. I'd say that you misrepresented yourself a year ago and throughout. You are either still raging from your loss (if there were), or, you are just too dumb to see the harm you and Dovey have caused, you have an agenda that may not involve any dead relative at all.

Additionally, now you support the DOWN-reclassification of these African K-65 POTUS wastes that have been jammed into our throats with no public debate TO DATE or even disclosure (you didn't know a thing about this before, or didn't say when you saw me posting it..) - you don't support Lewiston-Porter tap water testing, and you don't support any tests or study except for a year book excercise in futility ... Hmm? What is your Republi-purpose or agenda in being here at a Niagara blog site again?

OH, and I didn't "shift" anything from Pu to Radium big boy. Nice try at the spin.

Hey, it's all in that thing called the periodic table. Remember> ? Would you like one sent to you? My pitch is the same today as it was when the first Artvoice article came out more than FIVE YEARS AGO. Go see it. First story about half way down... Ummm, OH Mikey, please see Radium-226 half way down in 2001. Thanks for your attention.

I really think that you should not equate what I know about physics with what you may know (about car ignition systems, or at least know where to get a graphic showing them), you know? You've done this before and you really have no clue as to what I know about anything--again, you know? What I know over on the other board is what I know and you seem to not know. I am sorry that you aren't picking up the speed on the physics. See those old dates and some of the aged commentary made by the people that you seem quite willing to place mine or my family's life in their hands...How can YOU do that from Ducthess County? Hmm. That really does seem like a trick.

Please, now go, read about Radium-226. I did my work more than five years ago (see AV articles). Either that, or go read the spelling and writing primer again. Either way it will be progress for the "tune up specialist." I am sorry if you're having trouble reading that. Bad glasses? I know that you are having some difficulty in writing and spelling but this is my first real indication of a comprehension difficulty too (hey, at least we've got it documented and down to a certain moment in time--and that should help if you choose). As I only have this for an indication to go on of your comprehension and sometimes the repetition over and over and over makes me afraid that you may have an Altzheimer like related disease (I've mentioned this before). Mike Webb, Please have yourself checked. Really bud.

Ummm, please see Radium-226 half way down in 2001. Thanks.

The above article is the very same article that I was contacted about a year ago by THIS VERY SAME "FAMILY." Pa-Leaze... Mike? Are you leaving your fibs all over the place on purpose now? HS? .mil?

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 19:51, 2006-02-03

nuclearlou · Senior Member

3X - Where did you go to high school ? Have you any military service?
3X - Where did you go to high school ? Have you any military service? Outcome?

Mike's return questions, or question that he left unanswered are all prettier in Curious Pink--

who put this African Uranium Radium waste there in the first place ?

The US Government-through a "back room" agreement made with African company (Union-Minere du Haut Detangue -sp) by Republican POTUS Ronald Reagan back in the 1980s in a deal he made for missile deployments...HE made the trade off.

Do you really think that the "Risk driver of Radium-226" is a good thing to leave behind? Was this "well advised" as you claim? i did not claim it , i linked to a group of professionals that did claim it http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0406/threads.html

Mike, you know that "They" made no such claim. What group? One person? The professional(s) that you refer number how many--? List their credentials please, Like one that made a return comment to me with all sorts of caveats, and if you look closely in that post you'll see the guy clearly says he doesn't know what's going on at the Niagara County Lewiston LOOW site and didn't know Jack-Shiite for at least six months prior and that was a few years ago--right? His disclaimer, not mine. So what does that tell you?

Can you cite references? National Academy of Sciences opinion? ANY OPINION from science that supports this being done to us IN SECRECY? Can you justify this in any fashion or manner?

none the less;

So, you can't cite ANY reference where this was discussed scientifically at all--Pure POTUS Politics and agenda. No science at all.

why moab and not the LOOW ? i dont know , i will guess that the "expert professionals" in the field were persuaded that it was the correct and proper solution for that site . the same laws apply to both sites or do you claim something else ?

Mike, you don't know anything about these laws. You keep circling back to Utah. Why's that? Please tell the good reader here that YOU have another interest in that State, will you please>? DISCLOSURE TIME. Then, we can discuss the politics of THAT state and the religious connections to politics IN THAT state, etc. You're dancin there bear and should get around to some answers and disclosure yourself. Now THAT'S Just NOT HONEST or open is it?

No, the laws do not apply carte-blanche here, there and everywhere Wendy, sorry. You do not know, That much, you are correct about. I DO claim something different but I can't (will not) explain it to you--you wouldn't understand it or won't apparently, as you've understood very little here over the last year. Why waste my time?

"RISK DRIVER" of Radium-226. Did you know that that's one of the most dangerous of radioactive materials and or why? OH, but because it's BS Bad POTUS, some ill advised people think this was OK, including you? i think you and i ishould defer to those who have the degrees and the credentials to make the decision , i see you have shifted gears from Pu to Radium 226 based on my links ? or was it sunspots that prompted the change ? although you speak poorly of the people at Radsafe they do have the credentials to validate their point of veiw , i defer to their expertise , and you ...... what say you ? http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0406/threads.html

I haven't changed a thing with what I say or know--see Artvoice articles 2001--2005. [url=http://www.atomicniagara.wny.org][ see article ONE 2001 story half way down page "Radium-226" ][/url]

You're the one going out on the Web for the first time on seemingly every subject topic I comment upon and grabbing the first thing that you see. Mike, it works like this--I make comments on things I understand (how long was I only a reader at RadUn"safe" before I asked anything?) I was not a newbie when those question(s) were asked. I DO NOT defer to their "expertise" on subjects that were never known before by them (at least never admitted to) in the first place, about radioactive materials as yet to be, or only (since all those comments were made) recently discovered/uncovered here at the Lake Ontario Ordnance Works site and elsewhere around Niagara, in previously undisclosed atomic locations and, that ALL of these posters work FOR the same military-industrial complex that really doesn't want this info out in the public realm because THEY left this political waste in the first place (enter dog: chases tail, no one harmed, no Peta).

You can defer THERE in Hopewell Junction, New York, Dutchess County, all you want to them. That's just sad, dumb and dangerous to the extreme because of your lack of knowledge and your distance from the dangers here. I will not do that here with the Niagara County obituaries and the next benefit for a six year old coming up in another week or two...

bottom line , same EPA same DOE same laws similar waste in the ground , MOAB gets remediated , LOOW does not , the same people reveiwed the facts and made the choice to remidiate MOAB and not LOOW , why ?

No it's not Michael. "Bottom line," actually these two situations couldn't be more different, and, YOU keep mixing apples with oranges, with lemons. PLEASE go read some more about physics and the law and that there are actually THREE locations impacted by the POTUS Bad Science. Sorry Mikey, this just doesn't jive with the facts or is the statement anywhere near cohesive. ie--"same EPA same DOE same laws similar waste." You can't have "same, same" and then use "similar." Sorry, it doesn't work like that anywhere.

i think you and i ishould defer to those who have the degrees and the credentials to make the decision , i see you have shifted gears from Pu to Radium 226 based on my links ? or was it sunspots that prompted the change ? although you speak poorly of the people at Radsafe they do have the credentials to validate their point of veiw , i defer to their expertise , and you ...... what say you ? http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0406/threads.html

Mike, "your links" honestly will NEVER cause me to do ANYTHING. Really and honestly can you relate to that? 99% of all the links that you've posted I had already visited over the last several years. So, nothing new.

One MORE time--PLEASE Mike don't presume to have any idea of what I know. You know? Do you know me? Have you created a "file." LOL.. Do you have a dossier on me? Actually, I have more research background in very specific subjects than some of the people that post over there. Not all are degreed or related to a science field. Some are looking only for info on installing smoke and radon detectors. LOL! I will not "defer" the life of ONE MORE CHILD OR ANY LIFE to the hands of smoke detector installers, weapons mongers and "meter readers" as Dr. Morgan called them. Sorry. NOT wise at all. YOU shouldn't take this "Risk" or do this either unless for your own NIMBY.

Dr. Karl Z. Morgan was the 30 year head of one of the national radioactive materials laboratories that said most of those HP guys now at RS are just "meter readers." Would you like that citation? Want to argue with another doctor? You won't be able to with this guy. His credentials surpass anyone's over there currently.

Hmm. I've seen the very same car tire available in Buffalo, NY, for $45.00 go for $110. right about where you're located. Don't stop in just one garage for your estimate. See how that works?

*ADDENDUM: Made this afternoon - The BELOW IS SO FUNNY I don't even want to overpost it--OUCH!!! Is that an appendix scar or 'Gaul' bladder?

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 13:41, 2006-02-03

Mindcrime · Guru

nuclearlou wrote:

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 20:56, 2006-02-02-- Edited by nuclearlou at 21:01, 2006-02-02

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley.asp

here some Americans see nothing wrong or improper belittling American military peronal injured in the course of defending the country - but a few cartoon s in the Danish press bring calls for murder and destruction to those responsible - do you think similar cartoons would be allowed in the islamic press ? do you think al jazeera printed the ones showing our own left belittleing American wounded ? is this not " aiding and abetting the enemy "?

pcguy · Veteran Member

Some of us here need to lighten up a little. There is a clear difference between discussing a subject , right or wrong, and simply berating another.

It's becoming difficult to discuss issues here, without getting mired in personal battles. This isn't an elementary playground, and it definitely isn't recess time.

Let's just stick to the issues, and maybe something good can come of it?

Scott Leffler · Veteran Member

On the Toles cartoon ...

nuclearlou · Senior Member

RE: Progress In Iraq?

pcguy · Veteran Member

nuclearlou wrote:

PC: What's personal about someone who doesn't understand the subject and wants to argue the dangers from more than 400 miles away--and that hasn't lived here since the ripe old age of eight?
I buried a guy four days ago. I'm tired of this too.

I was referring to the constant banter back and forth without any progress, sometimes interjecting accusations regarding education levels etc....

In reference to the water problems affecting you personally, I can relate to that, since I suffered from a severe illness in my youth that was directly related to the WNY environment, love canal specifically. I solved that situation by voting with my feet, and moving. I still feel a strong attachment to the area, and was believing that things are getting cleaned up. I have actually entertained the idea of returning to WNY, and pursuing a small business in the area. There is still a strong impression just under the surface of WNY, of defeatism, without recognizing all the wonderful things you still have plenty of. Politics has been the undoing of the area, and sadly so. Many of us whom left, are separated from family and friends who remain. This deeply saddens many, but what choices do we have? I had to pursue a home where I could effectively support myself, instead of becoming a burden on those whom I love. Many times I have heard people who left called cowardly, spineless, not "tough" enough to handle life, thats a bunch of bull. There is a large amount of young people who graduate with excellent educations in WNY, who have little to look forward to upon graduation. They leave every summer in droves, whats being done about that?

It doesn't take a genious to figure out why there isn't more prosperity in the area. Look at the cost of doing business. I don't completely side with big business, but there are many obstacles to locating jobs there, with the outrageous costs put upon by state and local government. Basically, you need people to return, and others to stay, without people there cannot be prosperity, to retain people they need income, to supply income you need business. All the pieces of the puzzle are needed. What has state and local government done in the past 20 years to make sure all the needed pieces are present and accounted for? very little would be my answer. Sure there have been efforts, but many of those are ill guided and fail. As people and business fail and/or leave it makes it much more difficult for those that remain. Forcing wages and benefits down, which leads to less spending and the cycle continues downward.

Sure there are water issues, but from what I have read, they are now being dealt with. Government agencies and possible sources of the mess are investigating. There have been major articles published in the mainstream press. At what point is a citizen activists job done? It's your duty to actively monitor the situation now that it's been accepted and acknowledged. Make sure they don't sweep it under the carpet, and that whatever actions result are appropriate. We can't continually spout gloom and doom, this will accomplish little, or make things worse.

I apologize for crossing thread boundaries here, but the subject matter has crossed many threads already, and it's not like anyone getting this far into the forum will not know whats being discussed at this point.....

nuclearlou · Senior Member

PC: I'm not trying to hijack any threads or to cause any problems. I just shouldn't respond I agree to a point. My problem with that is I'm really trying to begin the "fix" dialogue that you mention with decent, realistic, open and honest people. That being said.

"and simply berating another." " This isn't an elementary playground, and it definitely isn't recess time."

AND THIS IS?
"In reference to the water problems affecting you personally, I can relate to that, since I suffered from a severe illness in my youth that was directly related to the WNY environment,"
---------------------------------

Ok, I may have taken that a bit too "personally"...

I don't use local water and have previously stated that, so it only affects "me personally" when I go to funerals or fundraisers for dying children and that kind of thing... Move? Maybe for you, moving wasn't cowardly (couldn't have been-you didn't know these things). With what I now know, I would certainly be damned to eternal/temporary __________ (you choose for me based on your religious belief system or leave blank.)

When water is the only issue here--then we can talk all about that "happy, happy" where ever it is you are posting from. Again, hope is good and no offense is intended. I've only now become aware PC that you're not located here. No, I don't want to know or fight. Just worth the mention for me.

"Crossing threads" was NOT MY habit at all EVER. Go look through these threads. Neither was it my style going from blog to blog like some--I'm referring to Mike, Dovey and SHughes from here doing this same thing and at another site in following threads maliciously, posting odd, unusual comments and worse. Do you own an Audi? If so, Mike can fix your coil (????) Go to Gazette and see the "Caves" thread where for two months these same three were playing a game and trying to convince other people that there were caves on the "plains of Lewiston," to discredit and malign -- that I was somehow wrong in my research and that belittling thing you just mentioned. Between SHughes, Mike and another "member," in attempts to discredit they were even posting and quoting passages out of psychology today text books! Did you just catch the above wollapa-looser " is this not " aiding and abetting the enemy "? That's just BullShip! He even just dragged a DHS comment over here. I support NO TERRORISTS only CARTOONISTS!

Search this site for the phrase that caused a few weeks of additional BS back when-- "But it was alot of fun baiting NuclearLou!" It's there and you'll see what a waste considering the seriousness of the subject and the statement that there initially were some sort "previously unseen documents." THREAD - "wHERE ARE THEY" ??????

I can't fight back? You didn't defend sense or logic a whole lot and very few did anything here except watch like Kitty Genovese. There were a few that posted publicly for which I am thankful and some that sent supportive email to not let 'them' stop me from posting. I guess that happens all over on these blogs.

I use my real name and sign things all through these threads. I am a researcher and my reputation is important to my work. That "stock in trade" is by my own choice. Search that phrase too. I have every right to defend my positions and understanding of these deadly issues. I have chosen to do things this way for reasons of credibility and have been published in several resources, print and electronic, etc and the info is used in classroom settings, so these comments could potentially impact somewhere and that's just despicable. It's also what we've all heard about as the most negative aspect to the Web. This is the old west in that regard. I didn't see Sheriff Scott steppin in too very often (sorry there Scotty). There are no posted rules and perhaps should be. It would be easy to go grab someone else's site rules and tweak or implement them right here. If we were starting a corporation, I would insist on this in the form of bylaws and use of simple form Roberts Rules. That would end this.

THIS VERY GROUP of People here could and should even work them out in a constructive fashion. That would be very Democratic and perhaps just too appropriate.

Besides, Scott will cut a post, pull a thread, close a topic, ban someone etc if things get too far out of senses. I just think the "bylaw" idea is as needed as signing in was. My .02$

I got tired of the follow(ed) harassment when questions weren't being answered (here, there, everywhere and on two blogs too many threads) by the same people and or misleading (read-dangerous) info was all that was being left. Do you want anyone drinking anything that they shouldn't? No, I know you don't! These others have the real personal agenda. I have no idea what it is but looking back is all you need to do.

PC-You've called me an "activist" (industrial-archeological-proctologist--is more accurate), and since activists should "back off once the mainstream press gets a hold of things," I'd like to point out that there is more than one story that meets the eye (as ALWAYS with Niagara County)--or only one mess or one location. Water is but one issue. An important one and multifaceted in the problems.

I mean these materials are ALL OVER from one end of the county to the other. ABC, CBS, NBC, Time, what media? The Niagara Gazette is hardly "mainstream."

Hoping to have our children "stay" or "comeback" without knowing the full ramifications of what I am trying to tell this board (seemingly interested participants-when not encumbered with the other things) is a bit lackluster in logic, don't you think? Again, no offense intended. How about finding out first if that's a good idea at all? I can't even begin to tell you on this blog and you wouldn't want to believe it anyway... Niagara was the free world's largest U center. That means things. Really, really bad things! That's JUST THE U. Pu is WAY worse in different ways. That says things too that it's even around. 2+2=Bad. Not Love Canal bad but a Chernobyl kind of bad. Really and honest. "This has been kind of a slow Chernobyl to our health for a fact." My words.

This information has been withheld from the public for more than Sixty+ years now already. Why would any bureaucrat want to admit anything or the whole picture at this point in time? Love Canal was supposed to be the end of It and the funniest thing is that all the while Lois Gibbs was fighting to get people relocated from her rings-around-the-canal (Hi Lois!:), ALL local officials at that time were already absolutely aware of just about everything I am currently saying to you here. Yet, nothing was done. Thirty years. I've seen the documentation that shows that they knew.

Now isn't that a pip Thirty Years After (Where's Alvin Bishop when you need a song?) and we're having to have this conversation! Over at the other blog, there have been several comments from people that also "knew that they knew." Hey, I even have a doctor comment to me saying this very same thing. "They knew." I'm not being conspiratorial here; There's documents that say this, anecdotal information from independent-unsolicited voluntary residents recollections, and statements from recognized experts that this is a problem. Maybe you know someone who would like to help?

The finished drinking water at Lewiston is one issue. Then there's the known--but hey, "we just won't say anything and maybe it will all be forgotten" contamination of school sites such as: Harry F. Abate, Niagara Catholic, 66th St., 39th St., Old NFalls High School, New NFalls HS......and there are references and citations for each. Then there's the previously unannounced locations that manufactured, handled or buried these most exotic of materials, that only recently are being admitted to (forced). There are sites and past business properties that are not being placed on the official EEOICPA The Act 2000 (compensation program for atomic workers and their survivors) that the city of Niagara Falls, County and state officials are trying to sell-off these legacy Manhattan Project and Atomic Energy Commission connected properties--without them being fully investigated, making it impossible for the past workers or their survivors to even apply for due compensation if relatives died because of their exposure. These people would never have even known that they or their families were exposed! Could be you.

Then there's.....NO TESTING that's being done of the TAP Water in the homes around Lewiston Porter Lake Ontario Ordnance Works site...where Plutonium was only recently "found" after being documented buried there for about the last 50, and I have to write about it? They are testing for Ph and NOT Pu and this is supposed to be sufficient for me to quit pushing? Sorry for the run on...lots-o-joe this a.m.

I could go on...and maybe I will just for the scroll of it. There are additional sites likely contaminated with Pu. The LOOW site is NOT the only one "known."

There are other spots that have been misidentified (or unidentified) in the past and current burials that will go completely unannounced and hidden if not pushed right now at this time. Pu is only one element that we're talking about here and since I'm mentioning it at all--I am talking about the burial here in Niagara County of nearly every element on the Periodic Table. That alone should say it all. I'm glad you've left PC but I wouldn't invite any kid to come back. That's the fact. Seems like a lot of issues to cease the battle just yet.

No offense intended PC or anyone else. Those are the facts. I'm being as positive and full of suggestions for change as I can be right now. We need a little paradigm too, I think. NL

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 13:15, 2006-02-05

pcguy · Veteran Member

Lou,

Don't misunderstand what I am saying here. I was not trying to make you out to be something you aren't. If I offended you by calling you a citizen activist, I am sorry, but that certainly is the way it comes across. And there certainly isn't anything wrong with that. If things regarding water and what is buried at various industrial sites in the area are as bad as you are implying, then maybe they should just cordon off the entire county and buy land back, then just leave the empty land as off limits until the half-lifes wear out.... I don't see that happening any time soon. comparing it to chernyoble is an interesting way to look at it. I have read a few accounts of recent visits to that region, and its kind of surreal. The observer I read from had toured the area on motorcycles with cameras and geiger counters. Much of the region is actually quite safe in regards to fall out. Only very specific areas are still hazardous, and they are mainly close to the plant. Not that they should just run right in there are start the towns up again. In the region a bit further out from the plant, there are a few people whom never left and remain there to this day, who knows what health ramifications that will have for them.

I just don't even know where to begin getting the situation taken care of. The people who are responsible for much of the toxic and hazardous waste are long gone, either dead or living in other regions now. Most of the companies are defunct, or well insulated from responsibility via mergers, acquisitions etc.. These are issues that unfortunately were not brought up or dealt with effectively at a time when something better could have been done. Fortunately now society and government is better educated on matters of toxic waste and they realize that burying something doesn't make it go away. I can remember visiting family in the falls area, and coming through the chemical plant region on the way into the city was horrible. The smell was unreal and unbearable. I couldn't imagine breathing that every day. Does that area still reek like that now?

It's amazing that there has been so much stink out in middleport over a single fertilizer factory, when Niagara Falls had so many plants, and you hardly hear anything about them? Maybe since Niagara Falls was such a vibrant community and now its merely a shadow of its former self the issue doesn't come up. It's shameful to see how well developed and clean the canadian side is, then see our disgraceful city rotting away with a casino sprouted up in the middle of it. The whole casino thing deeply worries me. Niagara falls will never be another las vegas, nor would we want it to be so. With this being the case, how can giving the land to the indians and letting them operate fairly tax free make things better? Sure they will put money in building facilities, shops, hotels etc... but in no way does this really better the city in any way that matters. Does it pay property tax, and sales tax to help the city support civil services for it's residents?

How well is someone going to do working as a blackjack dealer as compared to the good paying industrial or trades positions that left with the major employers. The same past that made niagara falls so vibrant and succesful was also it's downfall. development of aviation and weapons sciences was a booming business, and along with it came a price to be paid. Only now is that price being realized.

nuclearlou · Senior Member

PCGuy: THANKS for your thinking comments!

maybe they should just cordon off the entire county and buy land back, then just leave the empty land as off limits until the half-lifes wear out.... I don't see that happening any time soon. comparing it to chernyoble is an interesting way to look at it. I have read a few accounts of recent visits to that region, and its kind of surreal. The observer I read from had toured the area on motorcycles with cameras and geiger counters. Much of the region is actually quite safe in regards to fall out. Only very specific areas are still hazardous, and they are mainly close to the plant. Not that they should just run right in there are start the towns up again. In the region a bit further out from the plant, there are a few people whom never left and remain there to this day, who knows what health ramifications that will have for them.

I'd like to open up another thread--no, I'd like for US to open up another thread, and to see if we can't have a thoughtful conversation about this. Maybe others would join in the same. Would you mind? I think you've hit several good subjects right on the head but I don't want to continue the dialogue here. Would you be amenable to that? I sure would and I'd appreciate it. I'd like to start this a new and over again, if you would allow. Say 'Yea' and it's done.

Thanks and best, Lou