Religion Kept OUT Of Politics?

MBrophy · Veteran Member

RE: Religion Kept OUT Of Politics?

nuclearlou · Senior Member

SALEM WITCH thingy--I was reading this thread and remembered that the suspect cause of this was what RJ was talking about--except I seemed to remember that it was rye bread based. I went and looked for something called ERGOT--which is the toxin that causes(ed) odd behavior and hallucinations. Sure enough, here's the citation.
Hope this is interesting,
Lou

-----------------------
MB wrote-
About the Witch Trials: I thought the "spores in the wheat making people hallucinate" theory isn't totally conclusive. I'm really interested in this topic so if you heard something I haven't, pass it my way. =)

RJ wote about green potato toxins -
------------------------

Rye Bread ERGOT may have BEEN MADDENING TO "Witches."

No. 1037: Rye Ergot and Witches
In 1976 Linnda Caporael offered the first evidence that the Salem witch trials
followed an outbreak of rye ergot. Ergot is a fungus blight that forms ...
www.uh.edu/engines/epi1037.htm - 8k - Jan 28, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

Ergot Poisoning (LSD) - the cause of the Salem Witch Trials - PBS ...
Ergot Poisoning (LSD) - the cause of the Salem Witch Trials - PBS Secrets of the
Dead. ... LSD is a derivative of ergot, a fungus that affects rye grain. ...
www.luminet.net/~wenonah/history/ergot.htm - Similar pages

Linda Caporael's Ergotism Article
Ergot grows on a large variety of cereal grains--especially rye--in a slightly
... One could reasonably ask whether, if ergot was implicated in Salem, ...
web.utk.edu/~kstclair/221/ergotism.html - 48k - Cached - Similar pages

Secrets of the Dead . The Witches Curse | PBS
When Linnda Caporael began nosing into the Salem witch trials as a college student
in the ... LSD is a derivative of ergot, a fungus that affects rye grain. ...
www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_salem/clues.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Salem witch trials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... especially rye and wheat, which were commonly grown around Salem. ...
Ergot poisoning has also been linked to the witch hunts which occurred throughout ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials - 39k - Cached - Similar pages
-----------------------------
LINKS
Salem Witch research Salem Witch research Salem Witch research Salem Witch research

[Anyone wonder with me if there is TOO MUCH Ergot in Niagara County??]

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 02:38, 2006-01-29

Mindcrime · Guru

MBrophy, Yeah I thought this was interesting from the start. Even if we lessen the extremes, if say a Christian and a Jew were running, or a Buhdist and an atheist, or even a Roman Catholic & a Lutheran. It all seems to come down to just picking sides and we're not really concerning ourselves with the real issues, or who's the best man for the job.

Religion does not dictate character.

As far as the Salem thing, I had heard that grain storage being what it was, much of their bread became contaminated with poisonous molds. As they consumed it, the poison affected not only their physical behavior (convulsions, hallucinations, etc.) but how they reacted to it. Some felt they were possessed by the Devil and mass hysteria ensued.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Mindcrime wrote:

So at what point in history did Christians 'become good?' Sure they stopped sacrificing people 1700 years ago, they haven't crusaded against the holy land in 500 or so, they haven't held public hangings in a hundred. It was just last year that Christian groups physically assaulted abortion patients. How much longer until Christians become good?     i dont believe all people that would call themselves Christians , really are Christians and some of those really are not "good" people.

Getting back to my original point, let's say the candidate's religion actually DOES matter. How are Satanists any different from Christians?           those that claim to worship satan or claim that they are vampires have already made a very bad decision , indicating that they may make more bad decisions in the future and should not be elected to any public office where their bad decision makeing could hurt lottsa people .

Historically, both would be guilty of atrocities like murder and persecution. But apart from semantics, how would a Christian candidate be any better than a Satanic one?      i dont believe someone that follows the guidelines imposed by Christiantity is able to commit the acts you describe above and still be classified as a "Christian" - having said that i also believe Christians are allowed to defend their life and property by killing and or destroying an enemy that has stated and demonstrated their intent to kill and or destroy the Christians.    if in the course of the self defense the enemy retracts their statements of intent to kill and or destroy the Christains , the Christians should at that point relent and cease their operations to preserve their own lives and property.                   just my 2cents .

nuclearlou · Senior Member

Mindcrime
Date: Thu Jan 26 6:31 PM, 2006

RE: Religion Kept OUT Of Politics?

mike of the mountain wrote:
i did not pic the analogy , MC did

MC writes-
Where did I equate Christian values with Witch Trials? A good Christian would never condone burning people at the stake, boiling people in oil, dunking, hanging, disembowlment, public ridicule, banishment, excommunication, indulgences, false confessions, slavery, murder and rape. Just because nearly every Pope, Cardinal & Bishop in history has condoned those things...
--------------------------------------------------------

mike of the mountain

you used Puritans as an example , i said the Puritans would have executed pudding head ....
----
....ok , but .....
"good Christians" dont do that . bad guys do that .
----

I just think that there are two sides to every story. but in the best case scenario only one can be correct , although it is also possible both are incorrect .

"seperation of church and state" ... you know it doesnt say that .... or should i say, please show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .
From above post Church and State-
"show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do . "

As provided by a Christian Web site
http://www.spiritual-answers.com/Laws/church_and_state.htm
What law actually dictates the separation of Church and State?

As provided for in the US Constitution (as outlined.)
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter
----------------------------------------------------

INTERJECTION-*The very beginning practice of philosphical thought requires the use of both sides--Full Circle Thought (in my words), such as might be interpreted in reading DesCartes.. If one cannot consider at LEAST two and allow both to be correct...

Q: IF You were a Judge in any US Court and the defendant before you was a Vampire or a Quaker, and whatever the charge was it DID NOT relate to any sort of belief (they didn't rob a synagogue, they didn't speed by a church, kill anyone because of religion, or anything even remotely connected)--Would you, as the justice be able to use that person's beliefs or appearance in your decision making process? Would you want to -- or not and why? Is a Vampire acceptable in a courtroom wearing their formal attire, or a Quaker? Ss-How would You the judge, be able to tell with certainty what religious background either were?

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 21:41, 2006-01-29

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

nuclearlou wrote:

MindcrimeDate: Thu Jan 26 6:31 PM, 2006RE: Religion Kept OUT Of Politics? mike of the mountain wrote: i did not pic the analogy , MC did MC writes-Where did I equate Christian values with Witch Trials? A good Christian would never condone burning people at the stake, boiling people in oil, dunking, hanging, disembowlment, public ridicule, banishment, excommunication, indulgences, false confessions, slavery, murder and rape. Just because nearly every Pope, Cardinal & Bishop in history has condoned those things... -------------------------------------------------------- mike of the mountain you used Puritans as an example , i said the Puritans would have executed pudding head .... ---- ....ok , but ..... "good Christians" dont do that . bad guys do that . ---- I just think that there are two sides to every story. but in the best case scenario only one can be correct , although it is also possible both are incorrect . "seperation of church and state" ... you know it doesnt say that .... or should i say, please show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .From above post Church and State-"show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .

INTERJECTION-*The very beginning practice of philosphical thought requires the use of both sides--Full Circle Thought (in my words), such as might be interpreted in reading DesCartes.. If one cannot consider at LEAST two and allow both to be correct... in the real , not philosphical world , i dont think that both can be correct , right is right , wrong is wrong .   wrong cannot be right and right cannot be wrong . a child can understand it , a blind man can see it .

Q: IF You were a Judge in any US Court and the defendant before you was a Vampire or a Quaker, and whatever the charge was it DID NOT relate to any sort of belief (they didn't rob a synagogue, they didn't speed by a church, kill anyone because of religion, or anything even remotely connected)--Would you, as the justice be able to use that person's beliefs or appearance in your decision making process? Would you want to -- or not and why? Is a Vampire acceptable in a courtroom wearing their formal attire, or a Quaker?   Ss-How would You the judge, be able to tell with certainty what religious background either were?

well since vampires allegedly cant be up and about in the daylight , if a quaker dressed as a vampire was in the court room in the daytime , he or she would be a quaker , but if it was a night time court , i could adjorn until the following morning .   i guess i would have to use the law and the evidence filtered through common sense to render a decision concerning guilt .

The fact is the government has never passed a law implementing a "separation of church and state." [but some courts have incorrectly ruled the opposite is true]

The concept is derived from the First Amendment of the The Constitution of the United States of America, which reads as follows:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

----------------

the courts decide how to interperet the law .

many have commented about the first ammendment with their opinions , but the courts have the final say as to what it actually means and how it will be enforced.

no where is there to be found the words "church" , "state" or "seperation" in the 1st ammendment.

nuclearlou · Senior Member

Apparently children are not all taught to understand this and some blind men also have a blind mind's eye-- OR, there would be no opposing viewpoints, debate, or violence, or unwanted pregnancies, or suicides--you see what I mean. Some children may not be "wired" to be able to understand, as some adults in our society are found to be later in life.

FULL CIRCLE PHILOSOPHICAL thought is a lot like the below though....

It Was Written--

"the courts decide how to interperet the law ." "The fact is the government has never passed a law implementing a "separation of church and state. [but some courts have incorrectly ruled the opposite is true] " "seperation of church and state" ... you know it doesnt say that .... or should i say, please show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .From above post Church and State-"show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do . " ..................... As provided by a Christian Web site http://www.spiritual-answers.com/Laws/church_and_state.htm What law actually dictates the separation of Church and State? As provided for in the US Constitution (as outlined.) http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html "the courts decide how to interperet the law ." "The fact is the government has never passed a law implementing a "separation of church and state." [but some courts have incorrectly ruled the opposite is true]" "the courts decide how to interperet the law " "seperation of church and state" ... you know it doesnt say that .... or should i say, please show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .From above post Church and State-"show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do . " ..................... As provided by a Christian Web site http://www.spiritual-answers.com/Laws/church_and_state.htm What law actually dictates the separation of Church and State? As provided for in the US Constitution (as outlined.) http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html "the courts decide how to interperet the law " "The fact is the government has never passed a law implementing a "separation of church and state." [but some courts have incorrectly ruled the opposite is true]" "the courts decide how to interperet the law " "seperation of church and state" ... you know it doesnt say that .... or should i say, please show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do .From above post Church and State-"show to me where it says that ? pick one , either will do ." As provided by a Christian Web site http://www.spiritual-answers.com/Laws/church_and_state.htm What law actually dictates the separation of Church and State? As provided for in the US Constitution (as outlined.) http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html .."the courts "the courts "the courts decide how to interperet the law" the law" the law"..

-------------------------------------------------------

Not bad. Almost got that FULL CIRCLE THING going on now...! The trick is: It's like the Zen spinning of stuck truck tires ... Once you get there (?) though, you have to realize it (here/there/then), and "find" the way out of the connundrum question. THAT'S FUll Circle and would then be Zen jurisprudence - Swift Then Zen. The sooner you can get to the stuck truck, the sooner the truck can be un-stuck. It's all in the learned repitition and speed of process.

IMHO, that's what makes a "Good Justice."

----------------------------------------------

The following question was asked in seriousness and to further the debate by pointing something out about the law and jurisprudence. The entry level law school based question asks and requires more than a simple yes or no answer to highlight the reasoning used and to show any "temperature" of the justice. To argue law, these debates and basic understandings are needed.

I must admit, that the question was answered in the previous post without the thought needed highlighting or essay... Once you see the fangs or the big hat buckle, game over.

Q: IF You were a Judge in any US Court and the defendant before you was a Vampire or a Quaker, and whatever the charge was it DID NOT relate to any sort of belief (they didn't rob a synagogue, they didn't speed by a church, kill anyone because of religion, or anything even remotely connected)--Would you, as the justice be able to use that person's beliefs or appearance in your decision making process? Would you want to -- or not and why? Is a Vampire acceptable in a courtroom wearing their formal attire, or a Quaker? Ss-How would You the judge, be able to tell with certainty what religious background either were?

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 07:15, 2006-01-30

nuclearlou · Senior Member

"Iobjectu'reonher!" - The defense table is heard to speak out -

"This is Preconceived Notion, Hearsay, Cultural Profiling, Racial Bias and would be negatively perceived by the jurors and members of the press if there were any recess or adjornment in the case, thereby potentially causing public confusion and or a general misconception of any aforementioned facts!"

The People are divided and demand that BOTH defendants be further charged or Freed At Once. Justice must be swift, Justice Swift.

We, The People of these here United States, immediately demand a Habeous Corpuscle or something? At least for Vlad! And Maybe just a little Hay-be-oats for the Quaker!

HEADLINE
Falls City Tribune and Register

by
Robert Purina-Leach

New Niagara City Court House Building, Falls City -
"Quaker case slows like cold oatmeal." "Vampire snared in jurist robe probe."

Said Vlad from his jail cell (Supreme Court trial date 2022) still located on Hyde Park Blvd., "I'm innocent, I thought it was MY Cape!" - "Brother Henry" Claims Buckboard parked behind casino was "Gone in Sixty Seconds.."

Hehaw News - brought to you by Bailing Twine and Haywire Service. Copyleft 2006.

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 09:48, 2006-01-30

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:
... i dont believe all people that would call themselves Christians , really are Christians and some of those really are not "good" people... But they do call themselves Christians. Like every group, you have the good and the bad within.

...those that claim to worship satan or claim that they are vampires have already made a very bad decision , indicating that they may make more bad decisions in the future and should not be elected to any public office where their bad decision makeing could hurt lottsa people... It's not a bad decision jusr because it differs from yours. This is the heart of nearly every debtae on this board, especially the political topics. 2 groups can be right at the same time!!! It's all about perspective. (They can also both be wrong...)

...i dont believe someone that follows the guidelines imposed by Christiantity is able to commit the acts you describe above and still be classified as a "Christian" But they are...That's like saying a Vampire cannot be so because he made a public appearance during the day. (He doesn't claim to be a vampire y'know, he is fully aware where reality and fiction part ways.) - having said that i also believe Christians are allowed to defend their life and property by killing and or destroying an enemy that has stated and demonstrated their intent to kill and or destroy the Christians. What happened to turning the other cheek? Thou Shalt NOT Kill? if in the course of the self defense the enemy retracts their statements of intent to kill and or destroy the Christains , the Christians should at that point relent and cease their operations to preserve their own lives and property... So if someone we Christians were fighting suddenly asked for a truce, we would STOP hunting him down with the intent of killing him and everyone associated with him? Hey! Osama! Good news...

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

mike of the mountain wrote: like this the first time and in blue this time

. additional commentary by MC , like this .

... i dont believe all people that would call themselves Christians , really are Christians and some of those really are not "good" people... But they do call themselves Christians. Like every group, you have the good and the bad within. yes but the title also requiers the lifestyle , no lifestyle , no title, imho.

...those that claim to worship satan or claim that they are vampires have already made a very bad decision , indicating that they may make more bad decisions in the future and should not be elected to any public office where their bad decision makeing could hurt lottsa people... It's not a bad decision jusr because it differs from yours. This is the heart of nearly every debtae on this board, especially the political topics. 2 groups can be right at the same time!!! It's all about perspective. (They can also both be wrong...) yes but some political ideas have been filtered through reality and found to be impossible to be made to operate sucsessfully in the real world , like socialisim for instance - the test of time has shown that no amount of debate will make it work , no matter the perspective . i believe the worship of satan falls into the same category .

...i dont believe someone that follows the guidelines imposed by Christiantity is able to commit the acts you describe above and still be classified as a "Christian" But they are. not by the only two who's decisions matter ..That's like saying a Vampire cannot be so because he made a public appearance during the day. (He doesn't claim to be a vampire y'know, he is fully aware where reality and fiction part ways.) then by claiming to be a vampire he is showing either mental problems or delusional problems or both - having said that i also believe Christians are allowed to defend their life and property by killing and or destroying an enemy that has stated and demonstrated their intent to kill and or destroy the Christians. What happened to turning the other cheek? Thou Shalt NOT Kill? [the actual translation from hebrew reads "do not murder" as per the Everett Fox translation of the Torah, the JPS translation also uses murder not kill ]. if in the course of the self defense the enemy retracts their statements of intent to kill and or destroy the Christains , the Christians should at that point relent and cease their operations to preserve their own lives and property... So if someone we Christians were fighting suddenly asked for a truce, if they ask for peace and demonstrate their intentions to exist peacefully by withdrawing their jihadists from the field of battle and stopping hostile actions against the west and the allies of the west , then yes we should we should also wage peace . we would STOP hunting him down with the intent of killing him and everyone associated with him? Hey! Osama! Good news...

-- Edited by mike of the mountain at 22:42, 2006-01-31

nuclearlou · Senior Member

What if Vlad was one of us. Just a Vampire on a bus?

What if Vlad was one of us? Just a fanged-up Mormon on a bus? What if John whats-his-name was one of us? Just a stranger on a bus? Fangs bigger than the rest of us...

WOWSER, what an answer the below is! Talk about the pot blackening in circles...

Mountain of Mikael tried to write- ...."then by claiming to be a vampire he is showing either mental problems or delusional problems or both - having said that i also believe Christians are allowed to defend their life and property by killing"... Oh my! LOL!

This is true conflict. Do you REALLY think of yourself as a Christian?

I'd have to say the same thing as the above (delusional problems, reality and truthfulness issues too) about you claiming to offer any help here. You know, like you first stated when you two (Mike and Dovey) went to great lengths to contact me a year ago. I see no help here at all and only this continuous blather.

You and POTUS should attend a different church than whatever you currently do. Talk about Blood Suckers and Vampires!

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 22:08, 2006-02-01

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:
yes but some political ideas have been filtered through reality and found to be impossible to be made to operate sucsessfully in the real world , like socialisim for instance - the test of time has shown that no amount of debate will make it work , no matter the perspective . i believe the worship of satan falls into the same category....How many societies have even tried worshipping Satan? (Beside the US for the last 5 years...) Satanism is a religious doctrine, not a system for political rule. You can't run a country with Satanism any more than you could with Christianity. So again, the man's religious beliefs are irrelevant.

the actual translation from hebrew reads "do not murder" as per the Everett Fox translation of the Torah, the JPS translation also uses murder not kill ]. Sounds like euphemistic backpedalling. Was burning people at the stake murder or killing? Was it murder or killing when a religious activist shot an abortion patient on her way out of the clinic? How about flooding the entire planet? Any murder there? Or just killing? What's the real difference? Dead is dead.

Would you have voted for George Washington? Not Christian. Nor Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Adams. Again, religion does not dictate character.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

mike of the mountain wrote:

yes but some political ideas have been filtered through reality and found to be impossible to be made to operate sucsessfully in the real world , like socialisim for instance - the test of time has shown that no amount of debate will make it work , no matter the perspective . i believe the worship of satan falls into the same category....How many societies have even tried worshipping Satan? (Beside the US for the last 5 years...) Satanism is a religious doctrine, not a system for political rule. You can't run a country with Satanism any more than you could with Christianity. So again, the man's religious beliefs are irrelevant. the voodoo art ? practice ? and devil worship is alive in New orleans , various carribiean islands , central & south america and spattered about , we read about it in places like harlem and the bronx , who knows where else - no place where it flourishes is doing very well , now or throughout history - that should say something

the actual translation from hebrew reads "do not murder" as per the Everett Fox translation of the Torah, the JPS translation also uses murder not kill ]. Sounds like euphemistic backpedalling. Was burning people at the stake murder or killing? Was it murder or killing when a religious activist shot an abortion patient on her way out of the clinic? What's the real difference? Dead is dead. murder is not the same as killing , murder is a crime , killing enemies in self defense or in defense of society is encouraged / demanded in the Torah , the original book you pulled one of the commandments from.

How about flooding the entire planet? Any murder there? Or just killing? no matter how you spin this , that event can not be blamed on the POTUS with the mostest , GW BUSH .

Would you have voted for George Washington? Not Christian. Nor Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Adams. Again, religion does not dictate character. i had no idea that these guys were not Christian , for now ,i take you at your word , of course i will check on that , if i think of it tommarrow .

speaking of checking on things , that link from USA today did not quote anyone from the current administration that was thinking American military would be leaving Iraq at any particular time , no # of month s was even mentioned . the "conflict" they were refferring to appears to be the "war" with the Iraqi army , under the command of saddam , that conflict was ended after a few months as i recall by the destruction and or surrender of the Iraqi army .

nuclearlou · Senior Member

Sooooooo, Mike of the Mountain of Manchuria (yes, as in candidate and brain washed):

What say you about BS POTUS leaving us with this African Uranium Radium waste that WAS NOT FOUND in Iraq but rather, right here in Niagara County? What say you?

Do you really think that the "Risk driver of Radium-226" is a good thing to leave behind? Was this "well advised" as you claim? Can you cite references? National Academy of Sciences opinion? ANY OPINION from science that supports this being done to us IN SECRECY? Can you justify this in any fashion or manner?

This secretly pushed POTUS decision is called capricious, unilateral, arbitrary (he's no scientist), just ill conceived and executed. Did you know that the Lewiston "containment" facility (the NFSS-Niagara Falls Storage Site) contains not much--that's the US Court saying it's leaking (not me) and what does it contain (mainly)..?..well, looky there--it's that pesky "RISK DRIVER" of Radium-226. Did you know that that's one of the most dangerous of radioactive materials and or why? OH, but because it's BS Bad POTUS, some ill advised people think this was OK, including you?

And about this--

About Dovey's "health care" from the Gazette--since we're now cross posting....
WELL I wasn't sure of it before but now I am positive---

dovey
Regular
January 06, 2006 18:01
Did you ever notice at the first of the year everything is going along good.Then the mail comes with your health ins, bill."That would be if you pay your own"You look at it and think do I open it?Nah,wait till tomarrow,because then the numbers may have gotten smaller.
So the next day you open it,thinking it will be ok.Well not!This year it went up 14%.Which would make it about 300 dollars more a quarter.
To have health ins or not,That would be the question?
=============================
[Would you have voted for George Washington? Not Christian. Nor Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Adams. Again, religion does not dictate character.]

Mike ofManchuria (as in brain washed) wrote-

Fenruary 1, 2006

i had no idea that these guys were not Christian , for now ,i take you at your word , of course i will check on that , if i think of it tommarrow .

-------------------------------------------------------

Sung to ANNIE (who's now thin, emaciated and wearing a red wig after chemo)-

TO..MARROW, TO..MARROW, bet your bottom transplant that it's true....

Tomarrow, to marrow, that's what the bone inside you needs.

To..marrow, to..marrow, can ya give me a little of your marrow, that's a bone question....

"wheather" tis Noble to suffer the slings and arrows--of outrageous NIT WITS THAT will never bother to learn to smell--the coffee, or spell.

TO MARROW, TO MARROW the donor will come out TO MARROW.

TOMORROW-TOMORROW-TOMORROW, but then of course in my world Dighdfnsiun, $(%&^$^899njesd means something too.

MIKE OF MANCHURIA--Those scientists that you mentioned would not be in support of this war any more than Einstein was in favor of dropping the A-bomb. Hawking would think this whole situation was out of this world and part of mankind being sucked into a massive black hole of our own creation.

I just hope that two of the three wise men referenced have stopped spinning in their graves after having their names invoked by you. At least learn to spell--those guys did and Einstein could read, write and spell several languages.

By just mentioning the names of these famous scientists does not make someone smart, as is exhibited by these posts.

Sooo Einstein, learn to spell and then with your wisdumb instruct a relative of yours that must have gone to the very same class as you--That would be nune.

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 07:55, 2006-02-02

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:
the voodoo art ? practice ? and devil worship is alive in New orleans , various carribiean islands , central & south america and spattered about , we read about it in places like harlem and the bronx , who knows where else - no place where it flourishes is doing very well , now or throughout history - that should say something Voodoo is not devil worship. Get your facts straight. It's more like an arrangement of superstitions, and actual devil worship by entire communities is practically unheard of, to say nothing of entire nations using it as their governmental guidebook. America's a predominatnly Christian nation and it's not doing so great either.

murder is not the same as killing , murder is a crime , killing enemies in self defense or in defense of society is encouraged / demanded in the Torah , the original book you pulled one of the commandments from. And the cow you ate for lunch was threatening you...how? Those poor women who were tortured and killed in Salem? How threatening were they? I'm sure the abortion patient was waving a fetus in the air, threatening to throw it at someone, huh? People wrongly justify murder to call it killing. Just be honest.

How about flooding the entire planet? Any murder there? Or just killing? no matter how you spin this , that event can not be blamed on the POTUS with the mostest , GW BUSH . Who said anything about Bush? I was referring to when God supposedly flooded the world and had Noah floating around...God murdered everyone else.

I have yet to see how a person's religion dictates his ability to hold public office.

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

RE: Religion Kept OUT Of Politics?

mike of the mountain wrote:

Mr MC in black text and MOTM in blue .

the voodoo art ? practice ? and devil worship is alive in New orleans , various carribiean islands , central & south america and spattered about , we read about it in places like harlem and the bronx , who knows where else - no place where it flourishes is doing very well , now or throughout history - that should say something Voodoo is not devil if you pray to an alleged deity as those in the "voodoo" cults do , is that not a form of worship ? worship. Get your facts straight. It's more like an arrangement of superstitions, and actual devil worship by entire communities is practically unheard of,

santaria- http://sparta.rice.edu/~maryc/Santeria this public service version ommits some truth .

to say nothing of entire nations using it as their governmental guidebook. did you notice that new orleans just got whacked again with a few tornados ? hmmm is that common for this time of year ? their non devil voodoo religions dont seem to be assisting the remaining residents very well ....

America's a predominatnly Christian nation and it's not doing so great either. maybe we are not , but we do have another record low [ 4.7%] national unemployment figure , the fed raised the interest again to slow growth and control inflation , which is another in a long list of things that indicates our economy is kicking butt , i feel good , i am thankful to be here , where else on this planet do the citizens [ and illegals flocking in from everywhere else ] have it better ?

murder is not the same as killing , murder is a crime , killing enemies in self defense or in defense of society is encouraged / demanded in the Torah , the original book you pulled one of the commandments from. And the cow you ate for lunch was threatening you...how? Those poor women who were tortured and killed in Salem? How threatening were they? I'm sure the abortion patient was waving a fetus in the air, threatening to throw it at someone, huh? People wrongly justify murder to call it killing. Just be honest. the abortion patient ? you mean the woman that is haveing her own child murdered by butchering ? is she not facilitating the murder of her own child ? pick another analgy , please o please .

How about flooding the entire planet? Any murder there? Or just killing? no matter how you spin this , that event can not be blamed on the POTUS with the mostest , GW BUSH . Who said anything about Bush? I was referring to when God supposedly flooded the world and had Noah floating around...God murdered everyone else. i would think it is better to defer to the wisdom of "God" when thinking about the hows and whys of the events of the flood - i will not challange or attempt to second guess his decision .

I have yet to see how a person's religion dictates his ability to hold public office. very well , do you know the religion of hitler ? or stalin ? maybe lack of religion says more than the type of religion .

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/ MC was correct on this point - religions in pre and early America , it appears a small # of the founding fathers were indeed not Christian , but i wont hold it against them they still diid good .

Mindcrime · Guru

Stalin was an Atheist, Hitler was born & raised Roman Catholic, neither had strong religious convictions per se, but challenged religion in general based on it's need for allegiance. Their objection to religion was not faith-based (like your objection to Mr. Sharkey) but founded in political power. They also preferred emperical scientific progress to the dark-age reasoning of the churches. Which is why modern-thinking people believe hurricanes are caused by high humidity, light winds, and warm sea surface temperatures, whereas Mike of the Misinformation seems to think they are the result of people eating meat on Friday or something.

As for voodoo, it is factually impossible to compare it to devil-worship. There are no devils in voodoo. Just like witchcraft, there are light and dark applications for everything. The dark applications of voodoo account for less than 5% of practitioners. Unlike most Christians who persecute gays, condone executions and call for the assassination of world leaders - and that's just not cool.

Oh, still waiting for you to inform me exactly how religion affects a person's ability to hold public office.

-- Edited by Mindcrime at 07:17, 2006-02-06

jspeer · Guru

http://www.webratsmusic.com/video-4079-voodoo.php
Mike, You lost me with the voodoo thing. Grab a beer and listen to the link I gave...and repeat until you forget what you wrote...I did!

-- Edited by jspeer at 11:11, 2006-02-06