Is Religion A Mental Illness?

Mindcrime · Guru

Is Religion A Mental Illness?

pcguy · Veteran Member

I feel religion was invented to control the unwashed masses by the ruling class. Nothing inspires obedience like fear of a deity that is all knowing and merciless in their punishments. Think about it, if someone walked up to you and said you were doomed for all eternity unless you joined their MLM company and "donated" a percentage of your worldly possesions in return for eternal life and countless riches, what would your reaction be?

Oh, also their "god" was all knowing and all powerful, but he needs money....... Urgently! LOL

mike of the mountain · Senior Member

Albert Einstein , Stephen Hawkings , Issac Newton . three of the most influential scientists that have ever lived on this planet , all revered for their contributions to science and their knowledge and wisdom and their problem solving abilities , all knew that there was/is a "God" . were they silly brainwashed fools also ?

nuclearlou · Senior Member

The first two posts in this thread are a couple of the most intelligent statements about this subject that I have ever read or heard. That being said, the statement directly above this post is one of the most unintelligent I've been exposed to. Sheesh!

MIKE OF MANCHURIA (as in brain washed..):

--Those scientists that you mention to a person would not be in support of this war any more than Einstein was in favor of dropping the A-bomb. Hawking would think this whole situation was out-of-this-world and part of mankind's being sucked into a massive black hole of our own making and creation.

I just hope that two of the three wise men referenced have stopped spinning in their graves after having their names invoked by you. At least learn to spell--those guys did and Einstein could read and write several languages. (Mike and Dovey, I've never asked this of you two---IS English your first lanhuage?)

By just mentioning the names of these famous scientists does not make someone smart. As is clearly exhibited by these and numerous other posts.

Sooo Einstein, learn to spell and then with your neu-fownd wisdumb instruct a relative of yours that must have gone to the very same class as you--That would be nune.

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 09:12, 2006-02-02

Mindcrime · Guru

mike of the mountain wrote:

Albert Einstein , Stephen Hawkings , Issac Newton . three of the most influential scientists that have ever lived on this planet , all revered for their contributions to science and their knowledge and wisdom and their problem solving abilities , all knew that there was/is a "God" . were they silly brainwashed fools also ?

Yes.

Scientists are people and have the same propensity for brainwashing as anyone. They just never pitted their faith against their science. Or didn't want to. The smartest man on the planet, with 12 PhD's and a perfect IQ can still be duped by an unprovable paradox.

Another thought to ponder: The men you listed have been considered by many to be geniuses. Ever notice how often brilliance coincides with madness? There's a thin line between insanity and genius.

pcguy · Veteran Member

I will stand fully by my original statement. Think about it for a minute or two before coming to judgement. If you were a small, intelligent force and needed to control much stronger forces that outnumber you 10 to 1, fear would certainly be your first and strongest weapon. It's one of the most basic principles of war, make your enemy fear you more than death itself. Especially unrational fear, and primal fear of something that can't be seen or heard.

stating a number of supposedly faith inspired scientists does nothing to prove the existence of a God. Any really intelligent scientist or theorist has been feared and reviled by the religous and popular establishment. How many truly intelligent people were burned @ the stake in early america because they believed in something other than the accepted religious mores? Any scientist smart enough to survive will go along with the majority to a degree in matters of society, simply as self preservation.

If atomic energy were unknown, and I pronounced I believed in no God, and that in fact I controlled the basic elements of life, and in fact set of a small nuclear explosion to prove it, I would be desposed of quite swiftly as a heretic.......

MBrophy · Veteran Member

MC, This is a topic that I have spent a lot of time thinking about, especially since all of this debate about intelligent design. The thought of my existence being snapped out at death is a pretty scary concept and I'm sure it is to a lot of people; I've always wondered if the concept of God is man-made because we're too terrified of the alternative: "lights out." I'm curious about how you've framed the question, though; are you talking specifically about organized religion or the belief in a God or did you mean the whole shebang? Anyway, I don't know why science and religion get brought up in the same breath all of the time (ie. this thread and "intelligent design" being taught in school). I wasn't aware that the scientific community is focused on proving/disproving the existence of a God -- I would hope that they have more important work germane to their field (you know, things that can be proven with empirical evidence). Further, I don't think it should be the role of a religious organization to disclaim evolution, the age of the Earth, etc just because it threatens that illogical, incoherent mess of a text that is the Bible. What I find most troubling about religious conversations is the need to force beliefs onto others. Yet, just like religious nut-jobs a la Rush Limbaugh, those who are unaffiliated seem to be equally compelled to force their opinions on those who are religious through derision. Personally, I haven't discounted the possibility of the existence of a God; I kind of like the idea of it and if it that makes me mentally ill/brainwashed...oh well. I won't know if I'm wrong until I'm dead and I won't care at that point anyway.

"If atomic energy were unknown, and I pronounced I believed in no God, and that in fact I controlled the basic elements of life, and in fact set of a small nuclear explosion to prove it, I would be desposed of quite swiftly as a heretic"

PCGuy, I don't quite get your analogy; I read this 3 times and I came up with 3 different points that you could be making -- how "biblical" of you. =) Just kidding.

"Those scientists that you mention to a person would not be in support of this war any more than Einstein was in favor of dropping the A-bomb"

Funny, I didn't see anyone defend the war in this thread. Other than you trying to use the name of said scientist to prove your own point, just as Mike did, your comments are barely addressing his point. I don't agree w/ most of what Mike says but it really creates a nasty environment when people get contradicted, their names and locations publicly revealed, etc for the sake of personal vendettas. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sick of reading the bickering in almost every thread. It went from distracting to infuriating and it's totally disrespectful to the rest of us who are just trying to have a conversation. I think you have a lot of good points to make, NL, but the fact that you lower yourself to this guy's level (or below) leaves you with about as much credibility as an infomercial. He might be wrong but you're responsible for how you react to people. Why don't you just ignore each other and save me the trouble of spending so much time scrolling down?

-- Edited by MBrophy at 03:23, 2006-02-05

pcguy · Veteran Member

I was simply pointing out that religion as currently practised around the world is a farce at best, and completely intolerant regardless what their beliefs and scriptures attempt to profess. Just look as the recent uproars over cartoon impressions of mohammed in the danish press.

I find it surreal that intelligent people around the world can be duped by the concept of religion, when in their heart and their moral senses KNOW that what is going on is wrong, yet put their full weight behind it in the name of religion. These misunderstandings are going to lead to nothing but trouble.

It breaks my heart when I see what the taliban had imposed on the peasants of afganistan, while the entire world turned the other way, until 9/11, suddenly it was of the utmost importance. Any now we pretend that things are fine again, when in fact it is not. Much of what is going on with islam and the middle east is NOT the religion, but the despots and clerics who twist religion to their own needs, and desires for absolute rule.

Our government is not free of wrongdoing either. Much of the current hatred we face is for good reason. Take a good look at foreign policy over the past 30 years and you will find what we have done to earn it.

I have no idea what would solve these issues, I can only hope that somehow the world can illuminate the islamic population on how to successfully separate the ruling of a country, and it's dominate religion. This is exceptionally difficult, since in islam, much of the religion is geared towards religious rule and sharia. We aren't very qualified for this either, since the US is still struggling with this concept. We can't even decide if its appropriate to pledge the flag in school, or put the 12 commandments in front of a court building.

In the long run, the true solution is to build a successful economy in these countries, and elevate educational levels. Nothing cures tyranny more effectively than a learned and literate population. Oil fortunes should be building schools, hospitals and libraries, NOT palaces and fleets of yachts.

nuclearlou · Senior Member

Religion isn't mental illness at all. Mental illness is mental illness. You can choose either but not always mental illness.

Hey MichelleBrophy:

I see your profile says that you're an ex Lew-Port student writing from gradschool in the Carolinas!

Wow, that's pretty cool. How's your weather there? Are you acquainted with fellow classmates Mike or Jenny? Being from L-P yourself, how's your health? Another classmate of mine just died on January 31, 2006. He lived four houses away from where I did and this concerns me.

An "infomercial" about the nuclear wastes in our own home town--now I like that idea. Hmm. That's a thought to get the danger message out to the masses!

"There's Plutonium in them-thar soils and water table burials in Lewiston, but hey, I've got good news, I just saved a bundle on health insurance by switching to County employment."

Maybe we could get [a famous living scientist like________] to do the spot?

MBrophy wrote- "Funny, I didn't see anyone defend the war in this thread."

Just as an FYI-This thread was spun off from the "War" discussion by MC when Mike started talking about who it was ok to kill and justifying it with his "religious beliefs." You're right about my responses to him or here at all. Sorry to make you scroll so much.

I just flew in from digging Pu in Lewiston and boy are my arms tired...

Sorry again. I'll post less. I hope that makes things easier for you in the future.

Besides, I'd like to get back to talking about something important too, like that talking strawberry...or talking about talking about it anyway.

-- Edited by nuclearlou at 07:49, 2006-02-05

Jim Sacco · Senior Member

nuclearlou wrote:

Religion isn't mental illness at all. Mental illness is mental illness. You can choose either but not always mental illness. .-- Edited by nuclearlou at 07:49, 2006-02-05

Lou,

I agree with you. To add to that, lack of religion seems to create an environment of disrespect for others.

The values our society once engendered are bad because they are based on religion. And that which was once bad/disrespectful is now good.

It is unfortunate.

Jim

PS My father was over yesterday and sends his regards Lou. The lasagna was great and unfortunately, it is all gone (no leftovers).

MBrophy · Veteran Member

PCGuy, I totally agree with your points about organized religion. Actually, I've been thinking about the whole "education as a cure for extremism/terrorism" a lot lately. I read an interesting memoir over winter break by an Iranian woman who was educated in the West (I think she got her PhD at Rice) -- Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi...spelling might be a bit off. She taught the "greats" out of the West like Fitzgerald, James, Nabokov, Austen, etc in an Iranian university. It was fascinating/disturbing to read how her extremist students reacted to the complexity and ambiguity of these authors; a lot of her students saw things in black and white, ie, "Gatsby is bad because he is an adulterer; therefore, the novel is bad and will corrupt the youth." How do you argue with someone who is THAT brainwashed by religion? I recommend it -- it really highlighted the plight of women in a society gripped with extremism as well.

nuclearlou wrote:

Hey MichelleBrophy: I see your profile says that you're an ex Lew-Port student writing from gradschool in the Carolinas! Wow, that's pretty cool. How's your weather there?

A little assumptive are we? My profile, verbatim, says: "grew up in LP", which means Lockport. You might notice that in most posts, I've abbreviated LP in this manner (for example, in the "Winter Fun Fest" thread about LOCKPORT). I have never made any mention of where I went to high school in my profile (so that's just lying on your part) and if you must know, I went to Lockport High School. But thanks for trying to associate me with your little cyber-enemies because if someone is disagreeing with you, it MUST be a vast conspiracy...it couldn't possibly have anything to do with YOUR behavior. This is the second time I've addressed you on this issue and you still don't seem to get it; I'm not arguing your research -- first of all, that isn't my field and, also, I think there is value to having an individual devoted to this who isn't a government bureaucrat. But your attacks on others on this board makes you appear like the problem and it's getting to the point where almost every thread I've been interested in dissolves into paranoia and/or nasty comments. It obscures your points and makes you sound just as irrational as Mike, et al, hence the lack of credibility comment. I used to think of you as a modern-day Cassandra; however, the way you've interacted with people on this board does not do a lot for promoting your agenda and that's unfortunate.

Oh, and the weather isn't really a big deal to me either way; I'm here because of the reputation of the program that I'm in and I married a N. Carolinian so I plan on staying down here based on that and the job opportunities.

-- Edited by MBrophy at 12:16, 2006-02-05

nuclearlou · Senior Member

MB: There was no intention of "lying." I did presume and for that I am sorry. I thank you humbly for the Cassandra comment and apologize to all for letting Mike get the old goat from the mountan.

I'll only make posts to the best of my machismo that are informative or hu8morous. I won't post against this guy any more. I am glad that someone is pointing out the futility of doing things this way.

I PERSONALLY APOLOGIZE to Michelle Brophy for assuming that she was from Lew-Port, L-P, by only reading the profiled "LP" in that way. . LR

RattyJenn · Senior Member

Hey, MB

That sounds like an interesting perspective on Western culture/literature. I will have to look that up.

I am momentarily on a computer that works. Isn't it nice?

Mindcrime · Guru

So whilst re-reading this thread, a thought accourred to me, and I'd like to share:

If religion is considered a mental illness - is "enlightenment" a symptom? Is zealotry? Makes you wonder if there any illnesses with positive side-effects?

pcguy · Veteran Member

I wasnt really calling it a mental illness, as much as it is really a form of mass mind control. Call it brainwashing or whatever you want, but it's certainly a very proven way to get the masses to do your bidding without giving a valid reason. People are so willing to jump on the faith bandwagon it's downright scary. Sort of how we are expected to believe something is true just because our government tells us so, even when they have been proven to lie many times in the past.